Sure. I think a good random encounter chart consists of a mix of allies, neutrals and enemies, plus mundane and magical events. And when NPCs/monsters are encountered, there should always be a reaction/initial attitude/what are they doing roll, plus stuff like encounter distance. Random encounters feel unfair when they guarantee a fight, which may be outsized in difficulty. But if we make the encounter a part of the world, it is cool and works even if it turn into a problem.
D&D General How Do You Feel About Randomness?
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Only if you roll infinitely many times. It is not guaranteed if you do not roll infinitely many times. I cited a person literally in this very thread who just said no one had ever rolled certain such things in their actual games, which they have been running for multiple decades.
Not remotely what I was talking about. Just because it is on the list does not guarantee you DEFINITELY WILL get one, except in the limit as the number of times you roll goes to infinity. It may be unlikely--it's definitely not impossible to never see it.
Further, your objectively false claim, "In the balanced game the PCs will only ever find an amount of treasure set by the rules," remains objectively false. In a balanced game, the GM can reliably predict about how much impact a certain amount of treasure will have. There will, most likely, be guidelines for an amount that will produce the kinds of experiences the game was designed for producing, but you emphatically ARE NOT required to only give that and nothing else.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
I've never DMed one. (if we're still talking about Holy Avengers) I think one or two have come up in shopping lists, but they didn't get bought because of either cost or incompatibility with the then-current party.
As a player, I've seen exactly two in play that I can remember. One of them was the target of a fetch quest, thus we had to give it up after the adventure in which we found it.
But get this: the other - a Holy Avenger mace - belongs to my Cleric in our Saturday game, and he's using it in the field right now. (that game doesn't have Paladins; instead HA's can be used by Goodly Clerics...and maybe Fighters? not sure on them)
True this. There's many an item in my treasure tables that I've never seen come up at random (though in fairness, those tables are considerably larger than those in any DMG).
Edit to add: I had to check: in my tables, "Holy Avenger" is a property that any weapon can have; and the overall odds of generating a Holy Avenger weapon (of any type or root '+') when rolling for a single magic item are something like 1 in 4755.
Also true; and it matters even less if balance isn't one's top priority.
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GrimCo
Adventurer
As a player, i got holy avenger in one pf1 campaign. And sold it after 2 sessions so i can get more enchantmrnts on my +3 adamantium reliquiary undead bane keen scythe which was doing better damage ( and that 19-20 x4 crit was damn sweet). Holy avenger is really over rated as a weapon.
This strikes me as a misunderstanding of the role of the Holy Avenger.
If the weapon exists in the game, it needs to be the pinnacle of all holy weapons, the most powerful evil cleaver in the world. That's its role. If it isn't that it doesn't need to exist.
I think as the game has put more powerful options directly in the players’ hands, i.e. 3rd edition on, I’m less interested in randomness. Whereas 4d6 drop lowest was great, even necessary, when you didn’t start getting bonuses unless you had a 15 in an ability, now I find that would be more likely to create a really powerful PC at the expense of other players and not in keeping with a first level PC - so standard array it is.
Players of later systems want more story based campaigns and less dungeon crawls, which moves me away from random encounters, which admittedly were never my favorite thing to begin with. Also random magic items were never my thing - I’ve always tailored it to the party at least 75% of the time and maybe let randomness decide potions and scrolls, etc.
GrimCo
Adventurer
Why? It's just +5 cold iron holy longsword. It's not even that good for a weapon that costs 120k gold. I had better weapons than Holy avenger in PF1 games. Like my +3 adamantium conductive keen butchering axe aka universal can opener. Base 3d6 damage, 1.5 str on damage, x3 crit mod and i can channel through it.
And thats one other reason i hate randomness. I want the ability to create tailored made items. Not roll on chart for random (and often useless) stuff.
You again sidestepped the point. The Holy Avenger IS the most powerful holy weapon in the world. That's what it is there for. If it isn't, it shouldn't exist in the world.
GrimCo
Adventurer
In your game maybe. Not in mine. In mine is just very powerfull holy longsword. It's there if someone wants to play sword and board paladin. Which i personally never do. You can make better and more powerfull weapons for same or similar price.
I'm talking about why it exists in THE game, not yours or mine -- in the meta-setting that the game implies via all its built in lore elements. That a PC can pay some dude to add another socket to his battle axe completely obviate the point of artifact weapons existing in the first place.
And don't get me wrong: I am not sayingvthat is a you problem. That's a system problem. Easy item creation changes the game significantly, and has consequences for the "lost treasures of a bygone age" that the magic items in D&D largely represent.
