Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Scion said:
But then you have a problem with small creatures being unable to mine.
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How fast can a miner dig out a 5' square of stone?
- Thread starter Raven Crowking
- Start date
But then you have a problem with small creatures being unable to mine.
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
No, they would need to be very strong and have special equipment.
It makes sense to me that a lower str character who needs to use a smaller weapon will have a harder time digging his way through lots of stone.
But then, being smaller they wouldnt need as big of a passage, so that would help out some.
A different solution would likely be to use the mining skill. Come up with appropriate dc's for whoever is running the operation along with modifiers for various conditions and there you have it!
thinking more about it we have the kobold.
They are small sized and have a -4 racial penalty to strength. Pretty much no matter how we do the weapon this sort of thing is likely to make it not possible.
They do however have profession(miner).
So, with appropriate mining equipment you'll need to figure out what dcs you feel are appropriate.
Yep, still not terribly helpful, but likely 'damage' isnt going to be directly helpful here ;/
If it is need perhaps mining picks deal d4 damage and are able to ignore a certain amount of hardness. Regular picks ignore 4 points, masterwork 6 points and adamantine all of it.
Even this doesnt help the poor kobold though
They are small sized and have a -4 racial penalty to strength. Pretty much no matter how we do the weapon this sort of thing is likely to make it not possible.
They do however have profession(miner).
So, with appropriate mining equipment you'll need to figure out what dcs you feel are appropriate.
Yep, still not terribly helpful, but likely 'damage' isnt going to be directly helpful here ;/
If it is need perhaps mining picks deal d4 damage and are able to ignore a certain amount of hardness. Regular picks ignore 4 points, masterwork 6 points and adamantine all of it.
Even this doesnt help the poor kobold though
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
I would go with the Prof (Miner ) route myself, as knowledge of where/how to pick can be much more important than brute strength.
Perhaps:
DC 10, excavate 5' cube of dirt in 20 hours
+2 DC for difficult soil or sandstone
+4 DC for Stone or root entagled soil
+6 DC for Granite or Kalichi (a hard clay layer such as found in the Arizona deserts)
+4 DC for improvised implements
And in keeping with Sean Rynold's recent rant on avoiding absolutes, +5 DC for untrained use.
Characters with Stone-Cunning get a +4 to thier check.
Optional: This use of Prof (Miner ) is modified by STR
For each point higher than the DC, you reduce the time spent by 1 hour.
But of course, the question running though my head this entire time has been... why?
Perhaps:
DC 10, excavate 5' cube of dirt in 20 hours
+2 DC for difficult soil or sandstone
+4 DC for Stone or root entagled soil
+6 DC for Granite or Kalichi (a hard clay layer such as found in the Arizona deserts)
+4 DC for improvised implements
And in keeping with Sean Rynold's recent rant on avoiding absolutes, +5 DC for untrained use.
Characters with Stone-Cunning get a +4 to thier check.
Optional: This use of Prof (Miner ) is modified by STR
For each point higher than the DC, you reduce the time spent by 1 hour.
But of course, the question running though my head this entire time has been... why?
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
That looks pretty good, Primitive Screwhead.
Last edited:
Raven Crowking
First Post
For the purposes of mining, we have to consider not only how fast you can "chew through" the material, but also what happens to the tailings. Assuming that the stone is solid, it is packed into its tightest possible formation. When you break it up, you create a greater volume of stone (though not a greater mass). Without clearing the broken stone, you simply could not continue to hack away at the stone which remains.
Take this into account, and 3.X might look more like 1st Edition.
Take this into account, and 3.X might look more like 1st Edition.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Primitive Screwhead said:
I wouldn't.
Profession skills cannot be used untrained. The whole point of most primitive mining operations is that the BBEG can take a levy of unruly peasants (and perhaps a failed hero or two), clap them in irons, order "Away to the salt mines with you!," and reasonably expect them, with proper poking by the guards' sharp pointies, to start making holes in mountains.
Should someone with Profession (Miner) be faster at actual mining? Absolutely.
Should he be the only one who can swing a pickaxe at some rock? Absoltely not.
Inigo Carmine
First Post
One of the problems with D&D's destruction of objects is that certain weapons should be naturally better at it than others without having to make the distinction of a weapon special ability. I've always thought things like axes and picsk should just plain do more damage than a sword, but should have a natural attack penalty (essentially making the weapon permanently power attacking just a little bit). But, since D&D uses critical range/multiplier to represent this (because it deals mostly with living enemies) you've gotta work with that.
I've thought of employing a house-rule where the critical modifier of a weapon ignore that much hardness of an object. This makes the axe a better choice when chopping through wood than a sword or longsword or scimitar.
A 2-H pick would most likely have the same stats as a scyth (with the improveised weapon penalty if in combat), 2d4 20/x4 giving fairly consistant damage, and ignoriing 4 points of hardness essentially making it, for a medium person, 2d4 damage against 4 hardness).
I'm not gifted enough with stastics to be able to come up with an average damage (the hardness complicates the calculation, and I don't feel like spending 30 minutes to try and figure it out).
For a small creature, it would be 1d6 damage against 4 hardness. This gives the little ones a rougher time of it, but you'd expect a bigger person to be able to chip stone out of a wall faster thana smaller one, wouldn't you? Though that is quite a bit of a handicap..Maybe the damage on the picks should be upped one die each.
I've thought of employing a house-rule where the critical modifier of a weapon ignore that much hardness of an object. This makes the axe a better choice when chopping through wood than a sword or longsword or scimitar.
A 2-H pick would most likely have the same stats as a scyth (with the improveised weapon penalty if in combat), 2d4 20/x4 giving fairly consistant damage, and ignoriing 4 points of hardness essentially making it, for a medium person, 2d4 damage against 4 hardness).
I'm not gifted enough with stastics to be able to come up with an average damage (the hardness complicates the calculation, and I don't feel like spending 30 minutes to try and figure it out).
For a small creature, it would be 1d6 damage against 4 hardness. This gives the little ones a rougher time of it, but you'd expect a bigger person to be able to chip stone out of a wall faster thana smaller one, wouldn't you? Though that is quite a bit of a handicap..Maybe the damage on the picks should be upped one die each.
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
Patryn... hence the "And in keeping with Sean Rynold's recent rant on avoiding absolutes, +5 DC for untrained use."
It seems kinda silly to me that you can take an untrained..and incidently illiterate..peasant and have them earn thier keep with Craft: Calligraphy but they can't earn thier keep with any Profession skill. ;p
Go figure.
[/sidetrack]
I still haven't seen the 'Why' answered. I almost had a reason IMC, but the Druid just picked up WildShape and will bypass this issue in Badger form with no problem.
It seems kinda silly to me that you can take an untrained..and incidently illiterate..peasant and have them earn thier keep with Craft: Calligraphy but they can't earn thier keep with any Profession skill. ;p
Go figure.
[/sidetrack]
I still haven't seen the 'Why' answered. I almost had a reason IMC, but the Druid just picked up WildShape and will bypass this issue in Badger form with no problem.
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
A mine shaft or decent tunnel made by someone with no training is pretty likely to collapse. Being able to make a hole in the ground properly likely takes some training.
Sure, you can get a levy of peasants to dig that hole, but you had better have someone with at least a little know how giving the orders. Just telling people to 'dig' is likely to get you poorly made trenches at best
Proffession (miner) to actually get useful holes and mines and tunnels, but the check should get bonuses for extra people you have working on it to show faster progress.
Untrained people should not be able to do things above a certain category alone however.
But of course just making a single, not too complicated hole is part of the discussion. Likely any charcter could do this, but the timing isnt given by the core.
For an actual useful result other than just a hole however should 'definately' be in the ream of some sort of training
