How I'd re-work armour in 4th Edition D&D

[ArmoredSaint]

If I were on the D&D 4th Edition Design team, I'd have proposed an armour system something like the following:

Armour protects you in two ways--by making you harder to hit, and by absorbing some of the damage that does hit you. Light Armour adds +2 to your Class Defense Bonus, Medium armour adds +3, and Heavy armour adds +4.

Additionally, each type of armour has a DR rating:

Light Armours
----------------
Padded DR1/-
Leather DR2/- No "Studded Leather" or "Hide Armour."
Mail Shirt DR3/- Not "chain shirt"--that's always bothered me.

Medium Armours
-----------------
Scale DR4/-
Breastplate DR5/- I've always thought that a head-to-toe suit of mail would afford
Full Mail DR6/- much better protection than a cuirass and greaves.

Heavy Armours
-----------------
Reinforced Mail DR7/- This replaces "Splint Mail," "Banded Mail," and "Half Plate."
Field Plate DR8/-
Full Plate DR9/- I've always wanted to see 2nd Ed. Full Plate return.

I'm not sure what I'd do with "Max Dex" ratings or Armour Check Penalties yet.

Shields would add to your Defense Bonus, making you harder to hit as always.

Buckler +1
Light Shield +2
Heavy Shield +3
Tower Shield +4

I know the DR figures would seem low at higher levels, but I recall that one of the official statements said something to the effect of wanting to make the characters less dependent on their equipment, so I thought there might be Feats available every so often that add to DR like Armour Specialization does in PHBII, or like the Armiger's class features in Iron Heroes. Other feats might increase your Shield Bonus like Shield Specializtion.

Maybe a fighter could, through judicious feat selection, attain something like 12 or 15 DR by level 20 or 30--not enough to totally stop the damage from a Colossal dragon's claws or bite, but enough to significantly increase his chances of survival. Some of the attacks of very powerful monsters can do upwards of 30 points of damage; being able to cut that by 50% is nothing to sneer at.

Alternately, I wouldn't mind seeing variable DR like in Iron Heroes, though I'd use larger dice for each armour type than that game uses. I'd also include an "Armour Specialization" feat tree that would allow you to increase the DR that your armour offered. So perhaps a high-level fighter could expect, say, 1d10+5 DR from his non-magical full plate if he'd spent a few feats on this particular feat tree.

What do you think? Good? Bad? Ugly?

Edit: I'm sorry I fuss about this one subject so much; some people might be sick of hearing me. It's really the biggest change I'd like to see in the new edition. I figure that, if I keep the topic at the front of the public consciousness enough, by clamoring about it on every discussion board that has a 4th Edition D&D forum, WotC might drop us a tantalizing hint about what changes, if any, they've made to the armour rules in D&D.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I wouldn't use it, myself.

That's mainly because I prefer one or the other (pure AC or pure DR). Like say, Arcana Evolved on the one hand, or Conan on the other. And really, the latter is more my style.

It's less hassle. In fact, I've actually tried something similar to what you propose (the one from the SRD, and originally from Unearthed Arcana). It didn't go so well, I found.

But to each their own. If you end up trying it, please let the online community know how it went in actual play. It might help persuade [or dissuade] someone else, with regards to Armouir as DR.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Given the stated intent of streamlining gameplay, I'm wondering if this wouldn't do the opposite:

DM: The orc attacks! He hits AC 25 (we know AC is still in the game in some form).

Player: Uh-oh.

DM: With hsi crushing blow(tm), he does 12 points of damage with his greataxe! Wait, what type of armor are you wearing?

Player: Chain shirt.

DM: Make that 9 points.

Armro as DR has worked in some games and not worked in others -- it really depends on what other changes to the combat system are made.

I'd be really surprised at this point not to see a class- or loevel-based defense bonus, though, as that would fit with achieving the "magic items are less necessary" goal.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Terrible idea. You'd be making armour work just as it does in most other game systems. Those systems are a lot less popular than D&D. One of the great strengths of D&D is the simplicity of its core mechanics - armour, hit points, Vancian magic, classes and levels.

 

[Aloïsius]

Terrible idea. You'd be making armour work just as it does in most other game systems. Those systems are a lot less popular than D&D. One of the great strengths of D&D is the simplicity of its core mechanics - armour, hit points, Vancian magic, classes and levels.

I don't think D&D armor is simple...
D&D great strengths lie in its archetype. Grumpy dwarf fighter. High level wizards. backstabing rogues. D&D 3 great strenght was the "game in the game" aspect of selecting feats, classes, prestige class and other combo. We will see what is the 4e advantage.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yay, you came up with an idea that was in the SRD!

I hope that armor is going to be one of those things that is considered as something to enhance in 4e, rather than going the SAGA route of disposable armor. It's entirely possible -- SAGA has something called "equipment bonuses" that different armors give you enhanced survival capacity or the like...

That might not work for D&D so well, but it's a sign that they've been thinking about how to tinker armor for a while.

 

[Yair]

An idea I was playing with was having damage be a bonus on top of your attack roll. So a soldier's attack might be
Melee sword +5 (+6)
and his armor provides a bonus that opposes the extra damage, so his opponent might have
AC 15, DR 20
The effect is like AC as DR, but the math involved is only adding things up (which I find easier than subtracting) and is applied once to set a "DC" (DR 20, in this case) instead of for every blow seperately.


This way the soldier's sword swing is 1d20+5, +6 for damage. Let's say he rolls 10: that's an attack of 15, damage 21.
His opponent defendes with AC 15 so the attack barely hits, and DR 20 so the attack causes damage. (I was gonna combine it with simplified "Wounds" instead of damage - so damage 20 might suffice to get one place worse on the Condition Track, say. I find HP a hassle to keep track of, I think a few Conditions would be easier to hold on to.)

This allows the amount by which you hit to count for something. Just grazing him will do far less damage than a well-aimed blow.

 

[The Souljourner]

I highly doubt they'll do Armor-As-DR. There's a number of good reasons to use Armor as AC, and the number one is simplicity. You're always going to have to roll to hit no matter what, so making Armor affect that number means you only have to do one calculation, rather than two. Also, being harder to hit scales with level, whereas DR does not. 3/- DR may be great at 5th level, but at 15th, it's next to useless. +8 to your AC is 40% chance (sorta) less to hit regardless of how powerful the attack.

Plus, Armor as AC is how D&D has always done it, and it's always been very successful that way.

-Nate

 

[Delta]

Armour protects you in two ways--by making you harder to hit, and by absorbing some of the damage that does hit you. Light Armour adds +2 to your Class Defense Bonus, Medium armour adds +3, and Heavy armour adds +4.

Yeah, you've pretty much restated the "Variant: Armor as Damage Reduction" from Unearthed Arcana: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm

I've considered trying to use that (plus the vitality/wounds system) but when I look at the mechanics it's doubling all the relevant stats and operations on each attack. (Stats are AC/DR/WP/VP; attacks involve roll to hit, compare to AC, roll for damage, subtract DR, subtract from VP, subtract overflow from WP.)

If you look at it the other way around, the normal D&D system of just AC/HP is a very nice and elegant consolidation of all those pieces.

 

[Awakened]

Terrible idea. You'd be making armour work just as it does in most other game systems. Those systems are a lot less popular than D&D. One of the great strengths of D&D is the simplicity of its core mechanics - armour, hit points, Vancian magic, classes and levels.

Quoted for trizzz-uth!