How is this "Tank" set up? (Knight)

[Skead]

Class: Knight Click on "Knight for Character Page"
Level: 8
Stats:

Str: 15 (2)
Dex: 14 (2)
Con: 20 (5)
Int: 14 (2)
Wis: 12 (1)
Cha: 20 (5)

(Cloak of Charisma + 2, Amulet of Health + 2)

HP: 125
(Our DM doesn't allow anything less than half of the die when rolling for HP, hence why my HP is up there)

Gold: 28,000
Armor: 30
Armor: 10 (Full Plate + 2) Spiked
Shield: 5 (2 + 2 Enchant + 1 Shield Specialization + 1 Shield Block)
Dex: 1 (Max 2)
Size: -
Natural: + 2 (Bracers of Armor + 2)
Misc 1: +2 (Longsword of Defending + 2)
Misc 2: 0

Feats:

Improved Shield Bash (For AoOs?)
Shield Specialization
Mounted Combat (Knight Bonus)
Weapon Focus Longsword
Greater Fortitude (Knight Bonus)
Agile Shield Fighter

Attack Rolls
Level 8: 8/3

Longsword - 1d8 + 2 - 8 BAB + 2 Ability (-2 if shield bashing)
Shield Bash - 2D6 + 2 - 8 BAB + 2 Ability + 1 Enchant (-2 if shield bashing)
Longsword - 1d8 + 2 - 3 BAB + 2 Ability (-2 if shield bashing)


Some believe the Knight's Challenge doesn't actually provoke them into attacking you, just wanted to get the general opinion. My DM states it does because of the highlighted...

Knight's Challenge: In battle, you use the force of your personality to challenge your enemies. You can call out a foe, shouting a challenge that boosts his confidence, or issue a general challenge that strikes fear into weak opponents and compels strong opponents to seek you out for personal combat.


I don't push out much damage at all, that is not really my main concern. But if there is a way to more effectively raise my avoidance or increase my damage output without cutting back on avoidance then please do explain.

I'm very new at making "tanks" per say so I am sure the build is full of mistakes and inefficiency. I can only pick from; Players Handbook I + II, Complete Divine, Sword and Fist.

 

[roguerouge]

Well, your AC seems to be actually 28/31, depending on how you use your sword and whether the attacker is being shield blocked.

What's Agile Shield Fighter doing for you?

 

[Skead]

Well, your AC seems to be actually 28/31, depending on how you use your sword and whether the attacker is being shield blocked.

What's Agile Shield Fighter doing for you?

When I shield bash it makes it so it's only a -2 to each attack. I believe shield bash uses your highest BAB? Or am I wrong?

Again, I'm a total noob when it comes to tanks.

PS. Does moving in difficult terrain and in someones threat range provoke an AoO?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Agile Shield Fighter lets you TWF with a shield without needing the high dex of the TWF feat. It also doesn't care if you're using a heavy or light shield, so it's like getting Oversized TWF as well.

Shield Bash as an offhand attack would use full BAB, yes.

-Looking at your stats, you seem to have a 15 str as giving a +3, this is not the case.
-Does this include the +1 bonuses at levels 4 and 8?
-I think you overvalue charisma. It'd be much better to put youe high stat in strength, IMO. By level 8, you'll already have plenty of challenges per day, even with a +2 cha, and the DC will still be high enough to work on low will save targets. Against foes with decent will saves, they have a fair chance of making it either way.

Far as feats... if Sword and Fist is allowed, you should make sure to take Knockdown, as soon as possible! Really, it's just too good to pass up. Basically (and this is remembering from like 4 years ago), it does something to the effect of a free trip on a foe any time you deal 10 or more damage to him.

If you could change from longsword to lance and find some way to get a mount not prone to dying, you'd be much better off, but with those limited resources, your only option may be the leadership feat. Always bugged me Knights get a mounted focus and options, but no way of getting a mount. If you do stay grounded, Enlarge Person should be a buff spell you use (potion, ally caster, ally caster w/ wand you bought, whatever) nearly every fight in order to gain reach.

 

[Skead]

Right, sorry 15 is +2, in the calculations of bonuses to attack I just added 2, it was a miss-click. Good catch. Thanks also and your detailed response for both my posts StreamofTheSky

Well, we actually leveled from 1 - 8 and haven't done one dungeon... so maybe mounted combat would be a wise choice. But I just don't want to be helpless off a mount.

So if this was your Knight and being a human what do you feel the best choice of feats would be? Focusing on of course avoidance. I can also easily change the stats around, the two 18's are with the +1 from 4 and 8.

And how do you guys feel on multi-classing the Knight? Perhaps 5 of Paladin for the summonable mount?

Lastly, the items chosen above seem sufficent or am I way off the chart?


Thanks muchly for your responses and detailed information

Edit: As for the mount dying, the DM is pretty reasonable for not attacking a mount. He will if it poses more of a threat than I, but other than that he seems pretty easy going about that.

 

[Shin Okada]

Knight is a tank. Your job is to keep enemies from reaching/attacking your comrades, namely mages, healers and archers. And Knight' Challenge "Test of Mettle" is your main tool for it but it does not always work and has limited use per day. Bulwark of Defense seems to be another key ability.

While having shield is a good thing, using Spiked Chain is another good choice for Knight. You can threaten wider area.

Also, max-out AoO seems to be a good idea, especially when you have wider threatening area. Combat Reflex will be good. Defensive Sweep feat in PHB II will make your opponent a hard choice. Once you go adjacent to an enemy, that enemy provoke an AoO from you if he does not move. If you have 2+ reach and Bulwark of Defense, the enemy provokes an AoO even if he moves, as he cannot take a 5-foot step into a difficult terrain. Mage Slayer seems to be another good choice, too.

 

[Skead]

Ahh, thank you all. Lots of information.

To Shin Okada, yeah, it seems to be a little vauge if test of mettle is the only ability, but my DM is allowing Knights Challenge act as a "provoking" effect in which they seek me out in addition to the bonuses.

Albeit the missing feats, I'm pretty confidient with this build so far, and the only problem is reach when NOT on a mount or attack adjacent foes when they are within 5 feet. It allows for better saving throws (which my reflex could definitely use), immune to fear (which my DM uses a lot), immunity to diseases and Lay on Hands for some extra emergency healing.

Lvl 1 - Knight 1- Power Attack -- Combat Reflexes
Lvl 2 - Knight 2- Mounted Combat (Bonus)
Lvl 3 - Paladin 1- Spirited Charge
Lvl 4 - Paladin 2-
Lvl 5 - Paladin 3-
Lvl 6 - Knight 3- Knockdown feat
Lvl 7 - Knight 4-
Lvl 8 - Knight 5- Weapon Focus Lance
Lvl 9 - Knight 6- ??? (Hold the line?)
Lvl 10 - Knight 7-
Lvl 11 - Knight 8-
Lvl 12 - Knight 9- ???

Stats:

Str: 16
Dex: 16 (Gloves of Dex from 14)
Con: 20 (Amulet of Health +2)
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 18 (or 20 with Cloak of Charisma +2)

Then get a good Lance with bonuses, full plate with good bonuses and I'm set.
Am I missing anything? Or am I completely off?

 

[Shin Okada]

To Shin Okada, yeah, it seems to be a little vauge if test of mettle is the only ability, but my DM is allowing Knights Challenge act as a "provoking" effect in which they seek me out in addition to the bonuses.

I don't think it is vague. The generic description of "Knight's Challenge" does not describe any rule effects of the Knight's Challenge. Entries of each usage of challenge do. It is like Bardic Music or Ninja's Ki Power. But that is your campaign and your DM is always right.

Anyway, obviously, the biggest weakness of your build is that though your PC is a melee character, your attack bonus and damages are relatively low. Does your party have another good melee/ranged attacker who can hit high AC opponents? Does your party have good buffer? Ultimately, efficiency of a PC depends largely on the configuration of the party. DnD PCs are meant to work as a team.

Personally, I do not trust any build depends highly on charging. Charge seems to be a good tactics on paper. But when actually playing on battle grids, so many things prevent you from charging. Even in open field, you will often find that your comrades are blocking your charging path, there may be some difficult terrains in open field (oops! rubbles!), distance to the opponents are already too close, etc. In dungeons, it becomes much difficult to charge.

And you must think about your choice of mount, too. You are not Paladin. That means you do not automatically get a mount strong (durable) enough for your level. By level 8, your mundane war horse will become impractical to use as your combat mount. Talk with your DM if you can buy stronger monster mounts or can take leadership or similar feat to acquire intelligent mount cohort.

Finally, before making a knight who uses lance on horseback, talk with your DM and decide how to solve mounted charge. If you play strictly by RAW, you cannot use this tactics at all. Because when mounted, that is the mount who charges, not you. And the mount moves to the place from where the mount can attack the foe (usually, adjacent to the target). And from that place, you cannot attack that foe with your lance (reach weapon) and thus, you cannot get the benefit of the charge. So technically, your play group must use a house rule.

 

[Skead]

After some thought Shin Okada, you are perhaps right. Mounted combat is nothing to fully lean on for damage out put but can provide decent damage when the situation is right.

So I will go with the cheesy Animated shield, and stick with a 2 handed to close the gap between the casters and I. My question then would be, if I used a 2 handed reach (lance most likely) I obviously can't "threaten" areas adjacent to me. Is that the case if I am proficient to use a spiked shield as a weapon (and thus able to attack with in the adjacent areas?) and if so, can I have an animated shield that is spiked and still able to threaten those areas?

Thanks

 

[Shin Okada]

So I will go with the cheesy Animated shield, and stick with a 2 handed to close the gap between the casters and I. My question then would be, if I used a 2 handed reach (lance most likely) I obviously can't "threaten" areas adjacent to me. Is that the case if I am proficient to use a spiked shield as a weapon (and thus able to attack with in the adjacent areas?) and if so, can I have an animated shield that is spiked and still able to threaten those areas?

It is not 100% clear in RAW, I guess. But IMHO most DMs do not allow it.

Animated ability says "protecting her as if she were using it herself". Thus it protects you for sure. But you are not using it by yourself and thus cannot make shield bash. This is my interpretation of the rule. Bashing someone with a shield which you are not holding seems illogical.

Also, even if you could it is not a good idea as shield bash can only be done as an off-hand attack.

You can use armor spikes instead.