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How many Sneak attacks?
- Thread starter L0rd_Dark0n
- Start date
DemonAtheist
First Post
Rallets Artois said:
no this is not correct. by striking out from the shadows you are innitiating a surprise round, so your opponent, unless he has uncanny dodge, is flat footed. All attacks in the surprise round follow this rule. Then initiative is rolled, and combat is normal. However, if your opponent makes his spot check, he is part of the surprise round too (assuming more than one bad guy), and if his initiative beats yours, youre SoL
angry monkey
First Post
DemonAtheist said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a surprise round is only one action, right?
I thought that what he was saying was that he was in combat, and then hid. When you do that, your opponent still has an initiative, and is still acting in combat, therefore isn't flat-footed. They are quite taken aback by you jumping from the shadows and stabbing them in the neck, but are not "surprised" in game terms.
DemonAtheist
First Post
i read it as he was initiating combat from being HiPS. although i think all of them would still be sneak attacks (depends largely on interpretation of hide). I think that if they dont get their spot check (with hide getting the -20 from attacking while hidden), then all of the attacks are sneak attacks. the -20 to hide seems to balance it imo
Dr_Rictus said:
I think it's a hangup a lot of people have left over from 2e, where the Theif's backstab ability worked a lot differently. That's also where people get the idea that they can sneak attack if they just run around a person and attack them from the other side.
I forget the specifics, because the first time I tried to read and play 2e rules I ran away and hid in the Star Wars 2e RPG.
Rallets Artois
First Post
"thought that what he was saying was that he was in combat, and then hid. When you do that, your opponent still has an initiative, and is still acting in combat, therefore isn't flat-footed. They are quite taken aback by you jumping from the shadows and stabbing them in the neck, but are not "surprised" in game terms." this is what i meant, I did also mean expert tactian
im lousy at english (being english)
im lousy at english (being english)
angry monkey
First Post
Rallets Artois said:im lousy at english (being english)
Hoy Hoy Mate!
No worries about grammer here, just a pop of a nib over the dangle.
(sorry, when I was in England, everything sounded like that and I can't stop myself this morning)
So, no you don't get multiple attacks when you hide as an action, if you are already hidden you can make multiple ranged attacks and "stay hidden" at -20 on your hide check. Most people apply this rule to melee attacks too, though I don't know if it's explicit in the rules.
Whenever you get an attack from expert tactitian, it's a sneak attack by it's nature.
Tell your DM he's lame if he doesn't allow an expert tactitian bonus attack to be a sneak attack. Take the rulebook of your choice out, say "Look right here on page 37" then smack him on the head with the book, "it says no dumbasses!"
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
angry monkey said:
Not necessarily.
Let's say in round 1, I feint successfully. Against my next melee attack, you are denied Dex bonus... but until I make that attack, you aren't, so ET doesn't trigger yet.
Next round, I make a full attack. Against my first attack, you are denied your Dex bonus... therefore you are now an opponent denied his Dex bonus, which means that dues to Expert Tactician, I gain an extra melee attack against you, either before or after my regular action. However, since my regular action has already started, it can't be before... therefore it has to be after.
That first attack is a sneak attack; the other two attacks in my full attack action are not, since you are no longer denied your Dex bonus.
Now my regular action is over, so I take the extra attack granted to me by Expert Tactician... but since you're no longer denied your Dex bonus, it's not a sneak attack.
Likewise, if I'm using an invisibility spell, and I walk up to you and stab you, you're denied your Dex bonus, which means I get an extra attack from ET... but since the spell ends with that first attack, you're no longer denied your Dex bonus when the ET attack occurs, so it's not a sneak attack.
-Hyp.
The thing is that in 3/3.5 when a character gets multiple attacks they are considered to happen at the same time. So if a character qualifies for a sneak attack then he qualifies as asneak attack for al the attacks.
IMO this is something that is getting messed up here in the application by your DM. The attacks are not sequential but considered simultaneous. In 2nd ed they were sequential (based on weapon speed) but things are different in 3/3.5.
Chalk this up to another vagueness in the combat system mechanics (by design).
IMO this is something that is getting messed up here in the application by your DM. The attacks are not sequential but considered simultaneous. In 2nd ed they were sequential (based on weapon speed) but things are different in 3/3.5.
Chalk this up to another vagueness in the combat system mechanics (by design).
