How to add more sorcery points?

[FrogReaver]

I didn't assume. You said, "Give them all metamagic options, give them twice as many sorcery points, give them 1 thematic spell based on subclass per level." That doesn't say to figure it all out BEFORE you give it to them. It says to give it to them and then take it away. If you meant to sit down and start with double, figure out what is balanced by removing points, and then when you are done balancing the options, give the players the final result, you were very unclear about that with your wording. Your unclear wording isn't my fault

You should listen to people when they come back and say they did not say something you claimed they said. I never said do that after. You assumed that’s what I meant. You were wrong in that assumption.

 

[WaterRabbit]

I am working on an alternate sorcerer to accomplish two things, distinguish it more from wizards and make subclasses feel more distinct.

One of my approaches is to do more with sorcery points. I am giving more metamagic as well as subclass specific abilities that use them.

This runs even harder into the sorcerer's resource management problem. I am looking for suggestions on how to provide more sorcerery points to play with without letting a character just using them all for spells.

Is it class-destroying to remove flexible casting and just give a arcane recovery mechanic?

It is unclear what you are trying to accomplish in general here. "Distinguish it more from wizards" is vague at best. What problem are you trying to solve? Giving more sorcery points means making the class more powerful than they currently are. Giving more metamagic also makes them more powerful.

Flexible casting is what distinguishes sorcerers from wizards, so removing it in favor of Arcane Recovery seems counter to your goals.

If you want them to have more sorcery points, there should be a cost. Costs should be meaningful. For example, gain one level of exhaustion for x SPs. Or remove x from your HP maximum for y SPs.

Just giving the class more just makes them more. There are 5 sub-classes to the sorcerer and each of them have a distinct feel. How would adding more stuff make them any different?

 

[WaterRabbit]

Start here: Give them all metamagic options, give them twice as many sorcery points, give them 1 thematic spell based on subclass per level.

This will be too strong. Start removing and making these added abilities toned down until you feel it’s more balanced.

You should listen to people when they come back and say they did not say something you claimed they said. I never said do that before. You assumed that’s what I meant. You were wrong in that assumption.

Or instead of scolding someone, maybe you should reevaluate what you wrote and see how it could be misunderstood. Strunk and White is your friend.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

If the purpose of the temporary hit points is to let you get above your maximum, then temporary sorcery points should work the same. Of course, how to give them that is the question. Sorcerers have a lot of cantrips (which the players don't seem to value), so after a long rest, you can sacrifice one or more cantrips (until the next long rest) for an equal number of temporary sorcery point (that go away if not used by the next long rest).

 

[FrogReaver]

Or instead of scolding someone, maybe you should reevaluate what you wrote and see how it could be misunderstood. Strunk and White is your friend.

No I shouldn’t. If someone is unsure what I mean they can ask. If they make an assumption and get it wrong they should expect a pointed response. they should be mature enough to understand why they are getting such a response and to not dig in and blame their incorrect assumption on anyone but themselves.

Personally I’m quite tired of having to defend myself against things I never said or thought.

 

[jgsugden]

If your goal is to create something that feels less like a charismatic wizard and more like soething that draws magic from the world and their heritage, I'd change the feature that makes them most like the wizard: Their spell progression table.

• No spell progression, just spell points.
• Creating a spell slot from a sorcery point requires an action.
• A spell slot that is not used in an hour is lost.
• Turn the existing spell slots into spell points at 1st level = 2, 2nd = 3, 3rd = 5, 4th = 6, 5th = 7, 6th = 9, 7th = 11, 8th = 13, 9th = 15. This is also the cost to buy spell slots.
• You can know spells of ½ your sorcerer level rounded up. Your spells known limit is per the PHB.
• Spells of 5th level or below are Lower Arcanum. Spells of 6th level and above are Higher Arcanum. You may cast 1 Higher Arcanum at level 11, 2 at 13, 3 at 15, 4 at 17, 5 at 18, 6 at 19 and 7 at 20. There is no restriction on how many Lower Arcanum you can cast other than the spell point limit.
• Each time you cast a Lower Arcanum spell, the cost to cast it increases by 1. The cost to cast a Lower Arcanum resets at a short rest.
• Each time you cast a Higher Arcanum spell, the cost to cast it increases by 3. The cost to cast Higher Arcanum resets at a Long Rest.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I am working on an alternate sorcerer to accomplish two things, distinguish it more from wizards and make subclasses feel more distinct.

One of my approaches is to do more with sorcery points. I am giving more metamagic as well as subclass specific abilities that use them.

This runs even harder into the sorcerer's resource management problem. I am looking for suggestions on how to provide more sorcerery points to play with without letting a character just using them all for spells.

Is it class-destroying to remove flexible casting and just give a arcane recovery mechanic?

If you want sorcerers to feel distinct from wizards then rather than just sorcery points and more metamagic options, you really need to actually change up the format of how the sorcerer gains and casts spells, like the warlock does.

The warlock's spellcasting is its own system-- small amount of spell slots that refresh on short rests that, when coupled with invocations for additional always-available magic, creates a different type of casting experience. So long as the sorcerer has the exact same spell slot gain and spend as the wizard, bard, cleric, and druid... they will never feel that much different. As the sorcerer is all about internal magic they generate and power through themselves, their magic system should feel more like the monk and less like the cleric, druid, bard, and wizard.

Easiest way to start finding that direction is to go with the spell point path from the DMG. Transfer all the sorcerer slots to spell points and add the sorcery points to the total. Once you have this huge pool of "sorcery points", the player can then cast spells in whatever manner they want. On top of that, if it was me, I'd make every single metamagic option available to the sorcerer (meaning they don't have to choose specific ones.) At that point, everything is about having this internal pool of magical ability castable in all different ways in all various pools of power and strength, unbound to the "rules" that the wizards, clerics, bards, and druids have to follow.

At that point, I suspect that the lower amount of "Spells Known" might not be as much of an issue, as they are gaining many more metamagical abilities to change things up for the spells they do have, and many more sorcery points available to use for those metamagics more often.

Now to be honest... that doesn't really solve your "sub-class" issues to make them distinct from one another. But to me, there's really only one way to solve sorcerer subclass issues and it can't be done through the standard PHB ways-- it has to begin and end at personalized spell lists. Which means going through the effort of creating personalized spell lists for each sorcerer subclass based upon the theme of the subclass.

If you are a storm sorcerer, your spell list should pretty much be filled with storm magic. Including spells that aren't on the traditional sorcerer or wizard lists. Call Lightning is a must for your spell list. But by the same token... that Storm Sorcerer also shouldn't have access to spells that are blatantly incongruent to its internal pool of storm magic. There is absolutely no reason why a child who was born during a massive storm and was imbued with the Weave as it engulfed him should be able to cast the Disguise Self illusion (even though its on the sorcerer's spell list) So get rid of it. Make up a personalized Storm Sorcerer spell list that only have 8 to 10 spells spells at each level that make sense for a Storm Sorcerer to have.

Because having 17 supposedly different sorcerers, all of whom gained their magic through all manner of different ways... ALL casting Shield, Mirror Image and Fireball because those are the best spells for a sorcerer to have... pretty much destroys any chance of individuality or distinction between them. The only way to get a Shadow Sorcerer to not take Shield is by changing their spell list so that Shield is no longer an option for them to take.

In my new Eberron campaign, one of my players wanted to make a Chronomancy sorcerer (through an aberrant dragonmark). And I did it. And the way I did it was be completely re-writing the spell list for the character and only including those spells that could adequately be fluffed or re-flavored as slowing, stopping, or speeding up time. And anything that could not were not included. No Burning Hands, Darkvision, or Stinking Cloud for this guy. He still has plenty of good magic, but there's definitely a thematic aspect to him that makes him appear different at the table.

 

[Rossbert]

My current draft has a 'domain' mechanic, all sorcerers get start with a generic sorcery domain as they level they get 2 domains from their bloodline and 2 domains of their choice. Each domain has about 11 spells in it and a sorcerer can only pick spells known from his domain lists. Each domain also provides some sort of added benefit or ability, often costing sorcery points to use.

My main reason for not going all the way into the spell point system (or the mystic format) is that I want it to remain decently set up to interact with other classes, without weird multiclass balance or conversion issues, but I am open to a workaround.

 

[MoonSong]

Have you thought about types of sorcery points? Like an evocation point, a divination point, etc. That would limit the spells that they can be used on.

That makes them more wizard-like, me no like that.

My current draft has a 'domain' mechanic, all sorcerers get start with a generic sorcery domain as they level they get 2 domains from their bloodline and 2 domains of their choice. Each domain has about 11 spells in it and a sorcerer can only pick spells known from his domain lists. Each domain also provides some sort of added benefit or ability, often costing sorcery points to use.

My main reason for not going all the way into the spell point system (or the mystic format) is that I want it to remain decently set up to interact with other classes, without weird multiclass balance or conversion issues, but I am open to a workaround.

How about a simple solution? if you want to give double the amount of sorcery points, then double the cost of creating a slot. It you want to triple the amount of sorcery points, triple the cost to create a slot.

 

[WaterRabbit]

No I shouldn’t. If someone is unsure what I mean they can ask. If they make an assumption and get it wrong they should expect a pointed response. they should be mature enough to understand why they are getting such a response and to not dig in and blame their incorrect assumption on anyone but themselves.

Personally I’m quite tired of having to defend myself against things I never said or thought.

This has to be the funniest thing I have read in awhile. LOL