D&D 5E How to balance combat when 2 characters are average and one is extremely overpowered?

[jodyjohnson]

I think a 17th level game would be pretty hard to run as a new DM. As a player of 36 years I don't run games at that level with ease.

+13 to hit is pretty high in 5th. +6 proficiency doesn't happen until 17th. +5 for ability scores and +2 from archery style (+13 with ranged). Any magic items can lower that but the paladin and cleric should have items also.

3 attacks per round requires some multiclassing since pure Rogue doesn't get Extra Attack. So at least 5 levels of a Martial class for Extra Attack (also the source of Archery style). Crossbow Expert (required to do multiple attacks per round with a crossbow) allows the one additional attack as a bonus action which interferes with the Rogue's ability to Hide as a bonus action.

Unless you have a 12th Rogue/5th fighter Halfling it looks from here like your player is cheating. It he got to those numbers by magic items (-4 levels per plus) then I'd even out the playing field.

However, if the imbalance is that great, I'd reset the game to lows levels and build from there.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

BTW, here's another thing you could do to split the party:

PCs meet a huge group of say thirty githyanki. Githyanki are into things like honor and single combat. They agree to let the PCs pass if each one of them can defeat a githyanki in single combat, thus proving their worthiness. If the players decline, they get to fight all thirty githyanki all at once instead.

BTW, in this scenario the rogue is actually likely to struggle as much or more than the cleric and the paladin, although there are things he could do to still get his sneak attacks and therefore win.

 

[Valetudo]

He's doing everything wrong then. A 6th level rogue with 20 Dex and a +1 crossbow would have +9 to attack, not +13. But if he's a light armor expert (I assume that's a custom feat you invented?) and a Skulker and a Crossbow Expert, he can't possibly have 20 Dex. At most he could have rolled a natural 18 on Dex and then be a variant human with feats at 1st and 4th level, which would let him have two of the three feats and a Dex of 19. So he could have Dex 19 and +8 to hit, not +13.

Crossbow Expert is in the section on feats, around page 165. It would let him make two attacks per round (one with his action and one with his bonus action). He shouldn't be making three attacks per round.

My guess is that he is dual wielding maybe but is using his second crossbow without using his bonus action? Sounds like alot of numbers are off.

 

[SwiftRoofusUnderbunk]

He's doing everything wrong then. A 6th level rogue with 20 Dex and a +1 crossbow would have +9 to attack, not +13. But if he's a light armor expert (I assume that's a custom feat you invented?) and a Skulker and a Crossbow Expert, he can't possibly have 20 Dex. At most he could have rolled a natural 18 on Dex and then be a variant human with feats at 1st and 4th level, which would let him have two of the three feats and a Dex of 19. So he could have Dex 19 and +8 to hit, not +13.

Crossbow Expert is in the section on feats, around page 165. It would let him make two attacks per round (one with his action and one with his bonus action). He shouldn't be making three attacks per round.

Could you explain? Is there a reason he couldn't have Skulker and Crossbow expert still be 20 dex? He is a 6th level Halfling rogue. Looking over his character sheet and my book I figured out he was using cunning action for his third attack so I got rid of that since it can't be used for that. So my only issue is how he has +13 to his hit. And light armor expert was just him using expertise for his light armor proficiency. Not a custom feat. Is there a reason he can't do that? I can post a picture of his character sheet if it would help.

 

[ProphetSword]

I think we still need way more information. Can you tell us what his Attribute Scores are? What class is he, and has he multiclassed? How about race? What items does he have? What attack combination does he use? What's his fighting style, ranged or melee? What common tactics does he use each turn? All of these questions can help us figure this out.

EDIT:
I see you also offered to post his character sheet. Do that.

In addition, no you cannot use expertise on your armor proficiency. Doesn't work that way. You can only use expertise on a skill.

And the reason why he can't have a 20 DEX is because if you choose feats, you can't increase your attributes. It's an either/or situation. EITHER raise your attributes OR choose a feat.

 

[Valetudo]

I think a 17th level game would be pretty hard to run as a new DM. As a player of 36 years I don't run games at that level with ease.

+13 to hit is pretty high in 5th. +6 proficiency doesn't happen until 17th. +5 for ability scores and +2 from archery style (+13 with ranged). Any magic items can lower that but the paladin and cleric should have items also.

3 attacks per round requires some multiclassing since pure Rogue doesn't get Extra Attack. So at least 5 levels of a Martial class for Extra Attack (also the source of Archery style). Crossbow Expert (required to do multiple attacks per round with a crossbow) allows the one additional attack as a bonus action which interferes with the Rogue's ability to Hide as a bonus action.

Unless you have a 12th Rogue/5th fighter Halfling it looks from here like your player is cheating. It he got to those numbers by magic items (-4 levels per plus) then I'd even out the playing field.

However, if the imbalance is that great, I'd reset the game to lows levels and build from there.

Crossbow expert only allows the extra attack with hand crossbows while holding another one handede weapon. That doesnt allow you to reload the crossbow. So its an extra attack for one round basically without stat bonus to damage. Its another chance for sneak attack on for one round but you cant reload either crossbow unless you drop one after firing.

 

[jodyjohnson]

If he is using Expertise with armor proficiency he is probably using it for his attack proficiency. Neither of those is valid by the rules.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Expertise can't benefit armor. It's skills or tools. A lot of numbers seem really off, yeah.

Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Could you explain? Is there a reason he couldn't have Skulker and Crossbow expert still be 20 dex? He is a 6th level Halfling rogue.

A level 6 Halfling only has one Ability Score Improvement, which was gained at level 4. They don't get a second one until level 8. So even if the player rolled an 18 Dex at level 1, which was increased by +2 for being a Halfling, they would still only be able to gain one feat at level 4 (by trading in their Ability Score Improvement).

And light armor expert was just him using expertise for his light armor proficiency. Not a custom feat. Is there a reason he can't do that?

Expertise only applies to skill proficiencies, or tool proficiency with thieves' tools. There's no way to apply your proficiency bonus to armor.

 

[Valetudo]

Could you explain? Is there a reason he couldn't have Skulker and Crossbow expert still be 20 dex? He is a 6th level Halfling rogue. Looking over his character sheet and my book I figured out he was using cunning action for his third attack so I got rid of that since it can't be used for that. So my only issue is how he has +13 to his hit. And light armor expert was just him using expertise for his light armor proficiency. Not a custom feat. Is there a reason he can't do that? I can post a picture of his character sheet if it would help.

Yes a halfling can have a 20dex but only one feat at sis. Expertise cant be added to armor class. And yeah post his sheet.