How to get into a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion

[Marshall Gatten]

As others have noted: First, figure out what plane that is.

That part should be pretty easy. Anybody who can cast the spell will know what plane they are traveling to, because I find it hard to justify saying that you are creating a thing on another plane using a recipe that doesn't mention what plane it is. Perhaps different formulations of the spell use different planes, but it's not like nobody ever copies scrolls. With something this powerful, I doubt there are many variations, and there is probably only one. So, anybody who knows how to cast the spell will know what plane you've traveled to.

Second, find the special tuning fork for that plane that allows you to use Plane Shift.

I suppose this might be hard, depending on the DM. Personally, if a caster knows where they want to go (see above) then I'd think they would be able to figure out what frequency to tune the fork to. I imagine they'd probably have to go there and conduct some sort of experiment to find out the harmonic frequency of the destination. So, they'd just cast Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and conduct the experiment in the Mansion's living room. (I imagine it would consist of ringing a whole bunch of various tuning forks and figuring from them where the necessary harmonic is.) When they come home, they make their special fork, and now they have a key that will let them storm the gates of anybody using the same version of Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That part should be pretty easy. Anybody who can cast the spell will know what plane they are traveling to, because I find it hard to justify saying that you are creating a thing on another plane using a recipe that doesn't mention what plane it is. Perhaps different formulations of the spell use different planes, but it's not like nobody ever copies scrolls. With something this powerful, I doubt there are many variations, and there is probably only one. So, anybody who knows how to cast the spell will know what plane you've traveled to.

I suppose this might be hard, depending on the DM. Personally, if a caster knows where they want to go (see above) then I'd think they would be able to figure out what frequency to tune the fork to. I imagine they'd probably have to go there and conduct some sort of experiment to find out the harmonic frequency of the destination. So, they'd just cast Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and conduct the experiment in their living room. (I imagine it would consist of ringing a whole bunch of various tuning forks and figuring from them where the necessary harmonic is.) When they come home, they make their special fork, and now they have a key that will let the storm the gates of anybody using the same version of Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion.

You're assuming there is a plane of mansions, or at most each version of the spell connects to one plane.

I would also consider the possibility that every casting creates it's own temporary plane.

 

[Marshall Gatten]

You're assuming there is a plane of mansions, or at most each version of the spell connects to one plane.

I would also consider the possibility that every casting creates it's own temporary plane.

I think that a spell that creates a fully furnished mansion on another plane is obviously quite powerful. A spell that also creates that plane, though? That would be crazy powerful. Why waste all that power when you could just use an existing nearby plane? It makes no sense to me to assume that a PC has it within their power to create new planes of existence. That's god-like power.

I imagine the spell to work by creating the mansion on the other plane at a point coterminous with where the caster is on the Prime Material. If you try to cast two of them close enough together that they would overlap, then either spell fails or (if the DM is especially devious) they do indeed overlap, allowing the second caster to enter the combined mansion. Which allows an even simpler entry point than phase shift/greater teleport.

 

[MarkB]

I think that a spell that creates a fully furnished mansion on another plane is obviously quite powerful. A spell that also creates that plane, though? That would be crazy powerful. Why waste all that power when you could just use an existing nearby plane?

Because that would leave it vulnerable to Plane Shift.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think that a spell that creates a fully furnished mansion on another plane is obviously quite powerful. A spell that also creates that plane, though? That would be crazy powerful. Why waste all that power when you could just use an existing nearby plane? It makes no sense to me to assume that a PC has it within their power to create new planes of existence. That's god-like power.

God-like power? Spells that create *PERMANENT* planes already exist one level higher. This is only temporary, much weaker.

 

[Marshall Gatten]

God-like power? Spells that create *PERMANENT* planes already exist one level higher. This is only temporary, much weaker.

Excellent point, if correct. Can you let me know which spells those are? Looking at the SRD for 8th and 9th level spells that create permanent planes of existence, I don't really see any. Are they in a particular edition or accessory book? If they are in the SRD, then I'd say you are correct and that the Magnificent Mansion is on a temporary plane. If they are in an accessory book, then (in my game, anyway) I'd rule that those spells are ludicrously overpowered and don't exist. If they are in a particular edition that I don't play then I'd say that such imbalance is likely one reason I don't play it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Excellent point, if correct. Can you let me know which spells those are? Looking at the SRD for 8th and 9th level spells that create permanent planes of existence, I don't really see any. Are they in a particular edition or accessory book? If they are in the SRD, then I'd say you are correct and that the Magnificent Mansion is on a temporary plane. If they are in an accessory book, then (in my game, anyway) I'd rule that those spells are ludicrously overpowered and don't exist. If they are in a particular edition that I don't play then I'd say that such imbalance is likely one reason I don't play it.

It's psionic, not arcane:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm

There's also a Pathfinder version at level 8 but it's not permanent:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-demiplane

And a divine version:

http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-magic--89/word-of-genesis--3443/

 

[KerlanRayne]

Another way to look at this is to treat it like a larger and more temporary Portable Hole. They are both extradimensional spaces. Are people and things in a closed Portable Hole considered on a different plane? If so which one? Is it considered a pocket dimension or can you actually find it on the astral / ethereal plane?

By the way, all three versions of Genesis are in the d20 SRD. The arcane version is from the Epic Level Handbook, but like some other things from that book, is not actually epic.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/genesis.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Rope Trick, Maze, the spell being discussed now, are said to create extradimensional space. I've always understood those as temporary demiplanes. There are rules for the creation and interaction of Demiplanes listed in Manual of the Planes, starting on p.153.

The text reads, in part, "Demiplanes are almost always coterminous planes that are moored to another, major plane at a single location...Because they are so small, demiplanes have several access restrictions. First, they can only be accessed from a specific spot on the larger plane. A Demiplane usually has a portal at a stationary location on the larger plane...Second, characters cannot use plane shift or similar spells to travel to or from a demiplane, except at the specific locations where the demiplane is close to the coterminous plane...But some demiplanes don't even have even a single portal-such places are often used as prisons for powerful creatures."

 

[N'raac]

You conjure up an extradimensional dwelling that has a single entrance on the plane from which the spell was cast. The entry point looks like a faint shimmering in the air that is 4 feet wide and 8 feet high. Only those you designate may enter the mansion, and the portal is shut and made invisible behind you when you enter. You may open it again from your own side at will. Once observers have passed beyond the entrance, they are in a magnificent foyer with numerous chambers beyond.

The atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm. You can create any floor plan you desire to the limit of the spell’s effect. The place is furnished and contains sufficient foodstuffs to serve a nine-course banquet to a dozen people per caster level. A staff of near-transparent servants (as many as two per caster level), liveried and obedient, wait upon all who enter. The servants function as unseen servant spells except that they are visible and can go anywhere in the mansion.

Since the place can be entered only through its special portal, outside conditions do not affect the mansion, nor do conditions inside it pass to the plane beyond.
Focus: A miniature portal carved from ivory, a small piece of polished marble, and a tiny silver spoon (each item worth 5 gp).

So the entry point is still there, much like a Rope Trick. Both should be subject to Dispel on the same basis.

Or just gather something nasty near the portal - they can only stay inside until duration ends. And, since it is an extradimensional space, where are they leaving their Haversacks, Bags of Holding and Portable Holes?