How to kills a dragon... Help with a Warforged Juggernaut build?

[Imaginari]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some ideas and help with a rather specific build. I'm creating a high level Warforged Juggernaut who was specifically 'built' to destroy dragons. That said, going up against dragons solo isn't always easy, especial old intelligent ones. I'm looking for ideas or suggestions for items or builds given that Juggernaut is only 5 levels? Oh, one cool thing, the character will probably be size Large.

The best I got so far is perhaps going the Frenzied Berserker route. Alternately I was thinking about trying something with anti-magic. Both RAW and out of the box thinking are welcome.

~Imaginari

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

What books are available?

Honestly, killing dragons without spellcasting is a pain. I'd honestly try to work an WRT-abusing Idiot Crusader into the build, although a simple charger is effective if the dragon isn't prepared.

Honestly, ToB is your best bet, even if you don't like WRT or Idiot Crusaders. Shadow Hand lets you kill a dragon's Dex, a nice weak point assuming the dragon isn't ready for it, and, hell, ToB gives you pounce without having to go barbarian, as well as allowing you to bypass your otherwise mediocre saves.

The big thing you're going to need is to get the most out of your WBL. If you're fine not being good, or at least have Moment of Perfect Mind, Feathered Wings are a cheap way to get flight, and a flight that can't be turned off at that, and there are a good number of cheap items that let you laugh off otherwise instalose statuses. I really need to know your precise level before I can give you any solid answers on this, but WBL is where it's really going to make or break it. If optimized properly, it should pretty much mitigate the casting advantage.

Finally, if you can afford it, you'll want to put ranks in Knowledge:History. That's where military knowledge got lumped into, so it's a good idea to have if your DM doesn't like a guy with dumped mental stats to be a tactical genius.

 

[Imaginari]

I think pretty much any book is available. But I'm not very familiar with Tomb of Battle or some of the build nicknames. Any chance you can detail the build or point me towards a good build resources? I'll probably be playing at 18th lvl, but will likely advance. Thank you so much for the suggestions thus far, they are all great ideas.

 

[Dandu]

Well, if you build for the Shock Trooper Leap Attack Pouncing Frenzied Berserker of Doom (TM) then you could probably charge and kill the dragon in one standard action. However, the elder dragons are going to be cunning and make the fullest use of their magical abilities to counter you, and magic has some pretty hard counters to contend with. My best advice is that you secure a means of teleportation, such as an item of Dimension Door, a Ring of Freedom of Movement, Initiative boosting items, abilities, and feats, and, finally, a Belt of Battle.

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

I think pretty much any book is available. But I'm not very familiar with Tomb of Battle or some of the build nicknames. Any chance you can detail the build or point me towards a good build resources?

This is the Idiot Crusader. Basically, you qualify for Mot9 with levels of Crusader. This works best if you dip in the Unarmed Swordsage variant and use flaws, but the end result is your maneuvers refreshing every turn.

WRT, or White Raven Tactics, basically lets an ally take an extra turn. The problem? You qualify as your own ally, so basically a WRT-abusing Idiot Crusader gets two turns a round.

I'll probably be playing at 18th lvl, but will likely advance.

Okay, first off, you'll want to go first. Of course, this is useless if the dragon has Contingency, but you're rogered good anyways if they do, so whatever. My favorite initiative item set is a +1 Eager Warning Spiked Gaunlet with a wand chamber with a Wand of Nerveskitter, Sandals of the Vagabond, Belt of Battle, and a Ring of Anticipation. This comes out to a total of just over 40K, but gives you +11 to initiative, and that's before the wand of Nerveskitter, lets you roll 2d20 on initiative and take the highest, and gives you the amazingness of a Belt of Battle.

You also need the ability to shut down various statuses. I like Third Eyes Clarity and Freedom, as they're dirt cheap and do the job wonderfully. The one good thing about Warforged Juggernaut is it does a lot to improve your keyword defenses, but you'll still want things like the Scout's Headband and the Third Eyes mentioned above.

You'll also want some short-range teleportation items, although you could use Swordsage or Mot9-assisted Warblade to get Shadow Hand teleport effects(Which, as written, are completely mundane).

Finally, one thing you have to remember is that, from a WBL perspective, AC sucks. It's far, far too expensive, and, especially against things like dragons, scales too slow to be worth it. What you want is miss chances. Several armors are good at that, and using a chain shirt with chahar-aina and dastana lets you avoid the massive prices of multiple defensive enhancements on armor. Although no armor miss chances I can think of stack, the Freedom enhancement is cheaper than a ring on plain +1 armor, so it's a good deal.

Now just stick the rest of your money in a deep crystal greatsword, to avoid Ironguard and its greater variant. That's all I've got at the moment, it's far, far too early in the morning for me to write up a complete WBL setup.

 

[Imaginari]

Many thanks guys for the suggestions and list of potentially useful items. I hardly expect a full spec out. Items listed have been great and I'll research them more.

As for classes, thanks so much for the build link Cyclone_Joker. However, my DM probably won't go for Idiot Crusader because it takes advantage of some rules loopholes or lack of clarity. And I'm guessing he'll clearly see it as an rules abuse as related to the systems intent.

However, it does sound like crusader or some of the other ToB classes have some cool abilities, particularly useful against dragons or other big enemies.

One thing I was considering was trying to take the anti-magic warrior approach. Perhaps something like a continual anti-magic field, and relying on the character's natural abilities and bonuses. This might neutralize all of a dragon's various spells, items and magical defenses. I also considered using the Vow of Poverty feat in combination, since no magic items would work with this approach anyway. Other thoughts or ideas?

Lastly, I agree trying to keep a high AC seems to be pointless. Thus two ideas came to mind. Obviously trading AC for damage like a berserker is one approach. But what about other feats or powers that allow retributive effects or strikes? Assuming I'm going to get hit and hurt, how can I also make the dragon feel the pain as a result?

Many thanks.

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

As for classes, thanks so much for the build link Cyclone_Joker. However, my DM probably won't go for Idiot Crusader because it takes advantage of some rules loopholes or lack of clarity.

Actually, it's neither. It's just that the developers designed Mot9 to be entered with straight swordsage from the looks of it, and it takes a bit of work to get in otherwise, but there's no loophole or lack of clarity. In fact, the ToB PrC rules are quite clear.

One thing I was considering was trying to take the anti-magic warrior approach. Perhaps something like a continual anti-magic field, and relying on the character's natural abilities and bonuses. This might neutralize all of a dragon's various spells, items and magical defenses. I also considered using the Vow of Poverty feat in combination, since no magic items would work with this approach anyway. Other thoughts or ideas?

Don't. It's a bad idea. You need your items more than the dragon needs spells, especially since it can just buff itself and swing at you from outside the AMF. Also, a lot of good spells really won't care about the AMF. It's a bad deal overall, you're the only one losing anything there.

Lastly, I agree trying to keep a high AC seems to be pointless. Thus two ideas came to mind. Obviously trading AC for damage like a berserker is one approach.

Shock Trooper is always a good choice.

But what about other feats or powers that allow retributive effects or strikes? Assuming I'm going to get hit and hurt, how can I also make the dragon feel the pain as a result?

You really can't. Jack B. Quick is a cool build and all, but again, the dragon has reach. The dragon will, in that case, also, do more damage than you even if it didn't have reach. It's a lot of work and sacrifice for very little gain.
Many thanks.[/QUOTE]

 

[Imaginari]

Thanks for the warning about going the anti-magic route or counter-attack route.

 

[Imaginari]

Humm, looks like my DM might be ruling out the Tomb of Battle as a source book.

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

Humm, looks like my DM might be ruling out the Tomb of Battle as a source book.

Why? Tome of Battle is one of the most well-balanced, best-written, and generally good books written in all of 3.5.