DumbPaladin
First Post
Not at all. Doctor DM has said several times that this guy is a friend of his.
You're just not paying attention to that part.
You're just not paying attention to that part.
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How to stop player whining? Drama!
- Thread starter Doctor DM
- Start date
Zelda Themelin
First Post
Nice to hear you got mostly over that problem. I hope you all continue having fun together. If you have play-style issues, talk about them and try to find that happy spot to all of you.
kitsune9
Adventurer
It seems like you have a player who wants a cake walk and has maturity issues when it comes to gaming. It's a matter of telling him that his attitude and negativity is disruptive and he has to make a decision as to whether gaming is for him or that he should consider leaving.
You can even write a nice email to him so as to not stoop to his level such as:
Hey X:
You know, lately it's been really hard to DM you. You seemed to get really upset or bent out of shape over a lot of things and I wonder if there's some other issues going on in your life that you need to take it out at the game table. For example, in our last game session when X happened, your reaction was Y. When Z happened, your reaction was A. Hey, nobody's perfect and I'm trying to run a game so that everyone will have fun, but it doesn't seem like you are with all the negativity and anger. Stuff happens, I know. Well, since gaming may be not your thing, how about we say your character rides off into the sunset and we call it a day? No harm no foul. If you like to give it another shot, then we should chat a bit about what we can do to make it a more positive experience for everyone at the table before our next game session. If I don't hear from you, I'll assumed you've bowed out. Thanks!
You can even write a nice email to him so as to not stoop to his level such as:
Hey X:
You know, lately it's been really hard to DM you. You seemed to get really upset or bent out of shape over a lot of things and I wonder if there's some other issues going on in your life that you need to take it out at the game table. For example, in our last game session when X happened, your reaction was Y. When Z happened, your reaction was A. Hey, nobody's perfect and I'm trying to run a game so that everyone will have fun, but it doesn't seem like you are with all the negativity and anger. Stuff happens, I know. Well, since gaming may be not your thing, how about we say your character rides off into the sunset and we call it a day? No harm no foul. If you like to give it another shot, then we should chat a bit about what we can do to make it a more positive experience for everyone at the table before our next game session. If I don't hear from you, I'll assumed you've bowed out. Thanks!
Sigh. The Poo Bomber returned. 
After two good, no problem whatsoever sessions, he was a whiney douche. Which is sad because it was a really fun session. Our DM had an AWESOME villain who picked us apart, and the best thing is he wasn't even that powerful, (just 1 level higher than us) just a man with a plan and good use of some 0 level spells. It was cool.
So this could probably go in freakin story hour, but I'm just going to put it here to show what happend. If you ask me, this is all very legit, I'm going to have to ask Poo Bomber what the HELL he thought was so unfair.
Alright:
We're eating breakfast in our hotel in a city were we've had some trouble in the past, so when we see this DM described "super shady guy with a hood" staring in the window, and then take off as soon as we see him, we're curious. I go to the door and when he sees this doubles his speed, and I take off after him, the rest of the party close behind. We have a little chase montage, I round the corner in an alley, and am met by six guys with rifles who open up on me.
The rest of the party shows up, there's some more baddies on the roof, and a gunfight ensues. We make short work of them. After interogating one of the thugs, he tells us they were hired by some guy to kill the party and bring my character back alive. He leads us to the abandoned warehouse were the big bad guy hired them and wanted them to return. We knock out the captured thug and I go check the place out.
Looking in the windows, it's dark, there's lots of crates in there, and a circus tent in the middle of the room. I instantly say "Well this is a trap. I bet anything it's wired to blow or something." We decide to go in anyway.
We go to a side door, check for traps, and it's some sort of modified revolving door that bolts shut to lock people in. Our Tinker disarms it, and we head in. I check a crate, it's full of explosives. I have never seen a location that was more obviously going to be full of traps.
As we're checking it out we hear creaking floorboards above us, and see a light briefly shine the cracks of the floorboards. Some one's up there! Two of us head towards the stairs the other 2 check the tent. The tent is full of torture devices, and a tripwire trap. As I'm heading towards the stairs, I hear someone tinkering with the special locking door from the outside.
I charge the door and kick it open hopeing it'll smack whoever is out there in the face. The door revolves around so I'm outside, locks shut, and a small clown backflips away from the door. I'm locked outside, the rest of the party is stuck inside. The clown screams my name, says he's gonna get his revenge on me and starts throwing knives. (I have no idea who he is) We go at it for a couple rounds and he drops me. Poo bomber player starts freaking out because clown had a kind of high AC. He seemed to think it's unfair and just way too tough. (24 AC. We're 4th level but have some pretty overpowered characters. Our fighter type characters can rock a +10 atk, although we usually opt for multi-shots.)
While this is happening, the rest of party goes "Oh no, it just got real." They decide to go up the stairs, and the poo bomber player, WITHOUT CHECKING FOR TRAPS charges up the stairs, hits a tripwire and causes an explosion, and fails his reflex save. And the stairs are on fire. He starts getting pissy. The party decides to get out as bombs start going off throughout the warehouse. They run to the door and our Tinker starts to use his giant steam powered hammer to break it down.
I suddenly come to consiousness, hands tied behind my back on the upper balcony of the warehouse, and the clown tells me we've met before, and: "Now it's YOUR turn to watch YOUR friends die! How do you like it you sicko?!?!" And puts my head through a glass window so I can watch. Luckily the day before I had purchased an emergency Deringer and Sleight of Handed it up my sleeve for just this occasion. Popped it into my hand, put a shot into the clown and tumbled off the balcony. I nat 20'd my Tumble check, so the DM let me get my hands in front of me. I took off.
In the meantime they take a few rounds to get to the door and break it down while the bombs are going off, poo bomber is just rolling horribly on his saves and taking damage, and just being a DICK about. He went downstairs to get a drink, and the rest of us had a quick meeting about it, the DM decided to just play through it, if it got really bad we'd call him out on it.
When they were almost out and he didn't have much health left, debris started falling and they had to make saves, and he says "why bother, I don't have evasion I'm gonna die" and was being a douche, we all told him to make his effin save, and he rolled a 2, took enough damage to be dropped to negatives and said "see what's the point? we can't win." Another player asked him "Do you not want to play?" And the DM explained that if he HAD made his save, he only would've taken half and still been up. And it was a low DC. Sorry you rolled bad.
At this point he seemed to realize his douchey-ness, apologized and continued playing, albiet fairly sulkily.
They get oustide, the evil clown attacks them, they're beat up as hell. Trying to decide whether to run,or to try and take him (and how). Poo bomber wasn't exactly PISSY at this point, but was saying how basically it's too hard because this guy's AC is too high and that he'll have some kind of crazy trick to "screw us over". In the end the Tinker drops him in one hit with a good roll from his steamhammer.
So there's more to the story with the clown, but I've gone on enough. Game-wise, he was just one level higher then the party, a 5th level Rogue/wizard. He had just set the place up to explode, but that was PAINFULLY obvious. He was the only guy there, he used ghost sound and dancing lights to make it seem like someone was on the 2nd floor. His AC was easily explainable: 10 + 3 for his level (d20 modern rule), +4 dex, +2 leather armor,+4 Shield spell, +1 ring of protection that every member of this evil organization has. He was an awesome character, actually very far from being powerful, just masterfully played by the DM.
Sorry I went on so long, I just wanted to get the whole story out there. Is there anything REMOTELY unfair or way too hard with that scenario? I sure didn't think so, and I think I'm gonna ask poo bomber what exactly he thought was so bad.
So I think next time this happens we're calling him out on it, and I'm not being gentle. We were nice about it last time, but I'm calling him out on his bull#%&*, and if he can't handle it I guess he's done.
It's really too bad, because I thought the problem was solved, and I hope the game, or our frinedship doesn't die if we have to kick him out. And It's really such a great game too, our DM is just amazing.
After two good, no problem whatsoever sessions, he was a whiney douche. Which is sad because it was a really fun session. Our DM had an AWESOME villain who picked us apart, and the best thing is he wasn't even that powerful, (just 1 level higher than us) just a man with a plan and good use of some 0 level spells. It was cool.
So this could probably go in freakin story hour, but I'm just going to put it here to show what happend. If you ask me, this is all very legit, I'm going to have to ask Poo Bomber what the HELL he thought was so unfair.
Alright:
We're eating breakfast in our hotel in a city were we've had some trouble in the past, so when we see this DM described "super shady guy with a hood" staring in the window, and then take off as soon as we see him, we're curious. I go to the door and when he sees this doubles his speed, and I take off after him, the rest of the party close behind. We have a little chase montage, I round the corner in an alley, and am met by six guys with rifles who open up on me.
The rest of the party shows up, there's some more baddies on the roof, and a gunfight ensues. We make short work of them. After interogating one of the thugs, he tells us they were hired by some guy to kill the party and bring my character back alive. He leads us to the abandoned warehouse were the big bad guy hired them and wanted them to return. We knock out the captured thug and I go check the place out.
Looking in the windows, it's dark, there's lots of crates in there, and a circus tent in the middle of the room. I instantly say "Well this is a trap. I bet anything it's wired to blow or something." We decide to go in anyway.
We go to a side door, check for traps, and it's some sort of modified revolving door that bolts shut to lock people in. Our Tinker disarms it, and we head in. I check a crate, it's full of explosives. I have never seen a location that was more obviously going to be full of traps.
As we're checking it out we hear creaking floorboards above us, and see a light briefly shine the cracks of the floorboards. Some one's up there! Two of us head towards the stairs the other 2 check the tent. The tent is full of torture devices, and a tripwire trap. As I'm heading towards the stairs, I hear someone tinkering with the special locking door from the outside.
I charge the door and kick it open hopeing it'll smack whoever is out there in the face. The door revolves around so I'm outside, locks shut, and a small clown backflips away from the door. I'm locked outside, the rest of the party is stuck inside. The clown screams my name, says he's gonna get his revenge on me and starts throwing knives. (I have no idea who he is) We go at it for a couple rounds and he drops me. Poo bomber player starts freaking out because clown had a kind of high AC. He seemed to think it's unfair and just way too tough. (24 AC. We're 4th level but have some pretty overpowered characters. Our fighter type characters can rock a +10 atk, although we usually opt for multi-shots.)
While this is happening, the rest of party goes "Oh no, it just got real." They decide to go up the stairs, and the poo bomber player, WITHOUT CHECKING FOR TRAPS charges up the stairs, hits a tripwire and causes an explosion, and fails his reflex save. And the stairs are on fire. He starts getting pissy. The party decides to get out as bombs start going off throughout the warehouse. They run to the door and our Tinker starts to use his giant steam powered hammer to break it down.
I suddenly come to consiousness, hands tied behind my back on the upper balcony of the warehouse, and the clown tells me we've met before, and: "Now it's YOUR turn to watch YOUR friends die! How do you like it you sicko?!?!" And puts my head through a glass window so I can watch. Luckily the day before I had purchased an emergency Deringer and Sleight of Handed it up my sleeve for just this occasion. Popped it into my hand, put a shot into the clown and tumbled off the balcony. I nat 20'd my Tumble check, so the DM let me get my hands in front of me. I took off.
In the meantime they take a few rounds to get to the door and break it down while the bombs are going off, poo bomber is just rolling horribly on his saves and taking damage, and just being a DICK about. He went downstairs to get a drink, and the rest of us had a quick meeting about it, the DM decided to just play through it, if it got really bad we'd call him out on it.
When they were almost out and he didn't have much health left, debris started falling and they had to make saves, and he says "why bother, I don't have evasion I'm gonna die" and was being a douche, we all told him to make his effin save, and he rolled a 2, took enough damage to be dropped to negatives and said "see what's the point? we can't win." Another player asked him "Do you not want to play?" And the DM explained that if he HAD made his save, he only would've taken half and still been up. And it was a low DC. Sorry you rolled bad.
At this point he seemed to realize his douchey-ness, apologized and continued playing, albiet fairly sulkily.
They get oustide, the evil clown attacks them, they're beat up as hell. Trying to decide whether to run,or to try and take him (and how). Poo bomber wasn't exactly PISSY at this point, but was saying how basically it's too hard because this guy's AC is too high and that he'll have some kind of crazy trick to "screw us over". In the end the Tinker drops him in one hit with a good roll from his steamhammer.
So there's more to the story with the clown, but I've gone on enough. Game-wise, he was just one level higher then the party, a 5th level Rogue/wizard. He had just set the place up to explode, but that was PAINFULLY obvious. He was the only guy there, he used ghost sound and dancing lights to make it seem like someone was on the 2nd floor. His AC was easily explainable: 10 + 3 for his level (d20 modern rule), +4 dex, +2 leather armor,+4 Shield spell, +1 ring of protection that every member of this evil organization has. He was an awesome character, actually very far from being powerful, just masterfully played by the DM.
Sorry I went on so long, I just wanted to get the whole story out there. Is there anything REMOTELY unfair or way too hard with that scenario? I sure didn't think so, and I think I'm gonna ask poo bomber what exactly he thought was so bad.
So I think next time this happens we're calling him out on it, and I'm not being gentle. We were nice about it last time, but I'm calling him out on his bull#%&*, and if he can't handle it I guess he's done.
It's really too bad, because I thought the problem was solved, and I hope the game, or our frinedship doesn't die if we have to kick him out. And It's really such a great game too, our DM is just amazing.
Samurai
Adventurer
I have 2 suggestions, but I haven't read the whole thread (too long), so I'm not sure if they are new or not.
1) Explain to him that the PCs are like characters in a movie... if the entire story is a cakewalk, it's boring and no fun. Adversity builds excitement, and the tougher the setbacks and challenges, the greater the sense of accomplishment when you finally do succeed! Would you want to see Lord of the Rings if the only thing standing in the way of the Fellowship was a 1/2 day's walk on a well-marked trail through a sunny, flowered meadow, and they only had to kill 1 lone ork on the way? No!
2) Have him DM for a few sessions. When he's on the other side of the screen, 2 things will happen: no player character for him to solidly identify with, and he'll get to see the importance of throwing challenges at the party (and then see the party kill his monsters, bypass his traps, and march on triumphantly). People with no GMing experience often tend to overly identify with their character, but GMs learn very quickly that the PCs are supposed to mow through all of that stuff... the point is to make it a fun, challenging journey and to tell a good story, full of overcoming "impossible" odds and "unstoppable" foes and saving the world!
1) Explain to him that the PCs are like characters in a movie... if the entire story is a cakewalk, it's boring and no fun. Adversity builds excitement, and the tougher the setbacks and challenges, the greater the sense of accomplishment when you finally do succeed! Would you want to see Lord of the Rings if the only thing standing in the way of the Fellowship was a 1/2 day's walk on a well-marked trail through a sunny, flowered meadow, and they only had to kill 1 lone ork on the way? No!
2) Have him DM for a few sessions. When he's on the other side of the screen, 2 things will happen: no player character for him to solidly identify with, and he'll get to see the importance of throwing challenges at the party (and then see the party kill his monsters, bypass his traps, and march on triumphantly). People with no GMing experience often tend to overly identify with their character, but GMs learn very quickly that the PCs are supposed to mow through all of that stuff... the point is to make it a fun, challenging journey and to tell a good story, full of overcoming "impossible" odds and "unstoppable" foes and saving the world!
Yeah this thread has become insanely long. Quick version: This guy is a good friend, but whines and gets upset whenever ANYTHING bad happens to him or the party. We mentioned it to him, he had a fit and ruined a game session, we nicely talked about it with him and he was good for 2 sessions, but is now back to his old ways.
I don't think he knows the ins and outs of the rules well enough to GM, but I'll talk to the other guys and see what they think. Could be a good idea.
I don't think he knows the ins and outs of the rules well enough to GM, but I'll talk to the other guys and see what they think. Could be a good idea.
Sigh. The Poo Bomber returned.
Aw man. I'm sorry to hear this.
Wow. He really is a whiny bitch, isn't he? Does he understand that this is the game you're playing? You go a couple of rounds and it is entirely possible (if not probable against a superior foe) you will "drop." (That is rhetorical. Obviously, this poor shlump has NO CLUE what game it is he's playing.)
Stupid players suffer stupid things...Again, this is the game he is playing. I HOPE, just perhaps, he learned from this experience and will attempt to be less foolhardy in the future....again, rhetorical, as I seriously doubt he will.
Good plan.
Nice to see some of your teammates are using their heads. hahaha. Two things. 1: It's called karma. Have him look it up and learn it. 2: Where do you guys live, cuz I've had about enough of this brat and will fly back over to the states and boot his ass from your game myself! Jeebuz. You're rolling badly. You're takin' damage. SERIOUSLY, Dr. DM!
Your DM is MUCH too kind to this dip sKit.
Look, Dr. DM...I know, you've explained at length this guy is a friend and all of that...But once again, I just have to throw in the 2 coppers to say "Boot him." You can be friends with someone and not be gaming friends...and this guy, evidently, is simply NOT grasping nor shows signs of wanting to grasp, how D&D works.
Cut him out of the game and go hang with him on non-game nights. Rent a movie. Grab a drink. Chat up girls (or boys, or whatever floats yer respective boats). Play video games (apparently all he understands). But I, personally, see no reason to continue ruining MY good time and that of the group as a whole, for this whiny douche and his "Us against the DM. I have to 'win'. He's out to screw us." mentality.
Sorry I went on so long, I just wanted to get the whole story out there. Is there anything REMOTELY unfair or way too hard with that scenario? I sure didn't think so, and I think I'm gonna ask poo bomber what exactly he thought was so bad.
So I think next time this happens we're calling him out on it, and I'm not being gentle. We were nice about it last time, but I'm calling him out on his bull#%&*, and if he can't handle it I guess he's done.
It's really too bad, because I thought the problem was solved, and I hope the game, or our friendship doesn't die if we have to kick him out. And It's really such a great game too, our DM is just amazing.
No, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the scenario...and your DM does sound like he runs a pretty cool and exciting game. So, lucky you!
I hope the friendship survives, too, but you seem mature enough to acknowledge the possibility that it might not...or might need a "cooling off" period. While, on the other hand, it sounds to me that this friend (who, I believe you said was 20-something?!) has the emotional maturity of a 12 y.o.
SO, don't be too shaken/upset if he wants to throw a fit, go pout and "not be friends anymore" when you have to boot him...because, I think you and your DM already know, that's the road you're on...and he shows few, if any, signs of veering from that path.
Good luck and happy gaming.
--Steel Dragons
Zelda Themelin
First Post
I understand your need to vent. Maybe your friend had a bad day. He also seems rather emotional.
The ac thing. Having to throw multiple times 14 with normal hit is kinda irritating. I don't like as dm, when monsters have to constantly throw very well to get a glance, and I don't like it as player either. I while ago played in this game where ac on both sides was bit on good end. And both sides rolled low. Stupid fight got 30 rounds with 4 players and 1 dm with many mobs. Everyone playing was feeling sleepy. Prolly not the case here, but genarally fishing higher numbers. AC has IMO always been most problematic part of D&D combat, that and spell DC/saves synergy.
It might be that he personally found enemy npc very irritating and trouble taking it just in character. Happens at times. My sister can't stand clowns or creepy dolls. She gets upset just by imagining them.
Charging up stairs and not checking for traps. He probably forget, and thought he was in "auto-check traps mode" after doing it once. Maybe he thought it unfair dm didn't think he meant to be careful all the time in building. Of course, unless he generally plays reckless.
Maybe part of that behavior comes, that he has used to be alone when something pisses him off in some game. You know usual computer game thing, curse, maybe throw your mouse or hit keyboard. He hasn't still settled with idea that he can't just pull same routine on real people.
I think there is still some trust issue. He feels singled out. Maybe feels he fails to communicate his intentions to dm, or dm fails to understand them right. Feels that everyone else seem to side with dm, and he is one that is always wrong.
He also still doesn't quite get all the rules.
Whatever is reason, you must find nicer way to communicate opinions than what there is now. Bad mood is as catching as is good. Rest of you are apperently enjoying that game. I would try to figure out for while longer what makes him so moody. Seems like he too enjoys gaming with you, just not always. Find out if he wants to continue gaming wtih you, and if so he has to try to keep his temper, because it ruins mood for everyone else too.
Maybe tell him skip game if he feels day has started on wrong foot.
Don't kick him out, if it comes to that, try to persuade him to bow out himself. There will be lot less bad blood that way.
You also call him whiney douche and poo bomber behind his back. Maybe he is aware of that. I woudn' like my friend call me that way to strangers in internet or to my gaming friends behind my back. Unless that's norm in your friend circle of course.
Based on that, I'd feel his behavior during games is affecting your friendship into negative direction. You should seriously do some fun together that doesn't involve gaming. And while at it ask him why he hates failure so much, use movie metaphor as one here suggested. Tell him that interesting stories are not about heroes who cakewalk everything. Hardship and failures are what makes success so great and heroic.
Tell it it's not about winning, but about excitement.
The ac thing. Having to throw multiple times 14 with normal hit is kinda irritating. I don't like as dm, when monsters have to constantly throw very well to get a glance, and I don't like it as player either. I while ago played in this game where ac on both sides was bit on good end. And both sides rolled low. Stupid fight got 30 rounds with 4 players and 1 dm with many mobs. Everyone playing was feeling sleepy. Prolly not the case here, but genarally fishing higher numbers. AC has IMO always been most problematic part of D&D combat, that and spell DC/saves synergy.
It might be that he personally found enemy npc very irritating and trouble taking it just in character. Happens at times. My sister can't stand clowns or creepy dolls. She gets upset just by imagining them.
Charging up stairs and not checking for traps. He probably forget, and thought he was in "auto-check traps mode" after doing it once. Maybe he thought it unfair dm didn't think he meant to be careful all the time in building. Of course, unless he generally plays reckless.
Maybe part of that behavior comes, that he has used to be alone when something pisses him off in some game. You know usual computer game thing, curse, maybe throw your mouse or hit keyboard. He hasn't still settled with idea that he can't just pull same routine on real people.
I think there is still some trust issue. He feels singled out. Maybe feels he fails to communicate his intentions to dm, or dm fails to understand them right. Feels that everyone else seem to side with dm, and he is one that is always wrong.
He also still doesn't quite get all the rules.
Whatever is reason, you must find nicer way to communicate opinions than what there is now. Bad mood is as catching as is good. Rest of you are apperently enjoying that game. I would try to figure out for while longer what makes him so moody. Seems like he too enjoys gaming with you, just not always. Find out if he wants to continue gaming wtih you, and if so he has to try to keep his temper, because it ruins mood for everyone else too.
Maybe tell him skip game if he feels day has started on wrong foot.
Don't kick him out, if it comes to that, try to persuade him to bow out himself. There will be lot less bad blood that way.
You also call him whiney douche and poo bomber behind his back. Maybe he is aware of that. I woudn' like my friend call me that way to strangers in internet or to my gaming friends behind my back. Unless that's norm in your friend circle of course.
Based on that, I'd feel his behavior during games is affecting your friendship into negative direction. You should seriously do some fun together that doesn't involve gaming. And while at it ask him why he hates failure so much, use movie metaphor as one here suggested. Tell him that interesting stories are not about heroes who cakewalk everything. Hardship and failures are what makes success so great and heroic.
Tell it it's not about winning, but about excitement.
To be fair, I don't think the OP came up with "poo bomber" as an epithet.
Zelda Themelin
First Post
Yes true true. I just noticed that he used those term in last post. I wanted to mention that, because it started to seem, he is angry to his friend, maybe because how his friend started again behave that way, and ruined very nice feeling there was in game before that attack.
I just want to OP notice that he is acting angry too, and he should not go with that attitude to speak to his friend. That's how you loose friends.
So as to that, try to calm down, and think if his behavior in game is really worth start fights. He did calm his behavior down for two sessions when you were nice and talked to him. Be nice again, and maybe it works again. You might even notice he feels sorry about being such a joy-kill. If this is kinda case I think it is, it prolly takes few swings back and forth before things settle down.
It usually takes more than one to argue, and more than one to settle.
And by warning about using terms other posters use, I was implying that maybe he is lurking at these forums, you never can know.
I just want to OP notice that he is acting angry too, and he should not go with that attitude to speak to his friend. That's how you loose friends.
So as to that, try to calm down, and think if his behavior in game is really worth start fights. He did calm his behavior down for two sessions when you were nice and talked to him. Be nice again, and maybe it works again. You might even notice he feels sorry about being such a joy-kill. If this is kinda case I think it is, it prolly takes few swings back and forth before things settle down.
It usually takes more than one to argue, and more than one to settle.
And by warning about using terms other posters use, I was implying that maybe he is lurking at these forums, you never can know.
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