D&D 5E How We Beat the HD, HotDQ, Spoilers

[Derren]

There is no plot point that hinges on the PCs doing one particular action. There are no designated Win or Lose conditions within the adventure. What happens next is entirely up to the characters, and the variations are near infinite.

No plot point hangs on it because it is nearly impossible to lose. Everything in this adventure is scripted for the PCs to win. even in the most unlucky case and one of them dies, they still achieve the objective.

This, together with the heavy railroad removes any and all player agency from the game. Consequences for attacking the dragon? There are none as the encounter is scripted. Consequences for not attacking it? None. Consequences for being smart and not enter a town under attack by much too powerful enemies? Not allowed because of railroad.

Same with the half dragon. No matter if you engage or not, win or not, it hardly has any influence on the campaugn thanks to the scripted fight and clone HD

 

[Kordak]

My problem with that is that the actual situation is not so binary as I win vs I lose. I mean, the very title of this thread is "How we beat the Half-Dragon". So you'll have to forgive me if I'm skeptical of the "preordained to lose" argument. Nor do PCs even have to engage in the encounter. By the book, the DM should not punish the characters for not volunteering.

Apologies, Sumimasen, but I don't think you got what I was trying to say with the whole "button thing" there, I was probably too cryptic.

The point I was trying to make is that it really isn't a challenge - you lost because you were supposed to lose.

Granted, KD actually pulled a "James T Kirk" and turned things around with a lot of luck (I thought I covered that in the non-TL:dR part), but that probably didn't happen for the majority of the folks who played...again, because you were supposed to lose to solicit an emotional response.

Cool action description though.

 

[Iosue]

The point I was trying to make is that it really isn't a challenge - you lost because you were supposed to lose.

Yes, I got that. My counterpoint is that there's no "supposed to."

And what's with the Japanese?

 

[Kordak]

Yes, I got that. My counterpoint is that there's no "supposed to."

And what's with the Japanese?

Ah but there is a "supposed to" - How else do you supposedly get that emotional response (as Steve himself said in a previous post), if you don't lose.

Uh, Japanese because your location says "Nagoya, Japan" and I can speak it a bit.

 

[TiaxTheMighty]

Agreed.

Sorry, when I asked "The harm is that PCs die and players might get annoyed enough to not even play the game anymore. Is that what we want with 5E?" and you replied "Uh, yea actually", I thought that you meant that you thought this was ok.

No, you're right. That was my bad. I'm too lazy to go back and check but I think I quoted the wrong post and then incorrectly inferred "Is this what we want?" to be in regards to the lethality of an encounter. Reading comprehension fail.

 

[Iosue]

Ah but there is a "supposed to" - How else do you supposedly get that emotional response (as Steve himself said in a previous post), if you don't lose.

The emotional response is but one outcome in the myriad of ways the encounter can play out. And there are multiple ways of evoking said emotional response, including seeing Cyanwrath kill Markguth, or successfully defeating Cyanwrath and seeing him escape through his kobold lackeys.

Uh, Japanese because your location says "Nagoya, Japan" and I can speak it a bit.

I can speak it a lot, but we're not speaking Japanese here. It comes off as condescending.

 

[Wrathamon]

It wasnt scripted for my group. I decided to sit out that night (cause it was spoiled for me) Our group decided they didn't trust the 1/2 dragon and they tried to attack the 1/2 dragon after the fighter got smacked. It resulted in the prisoners getting killed. Now the town is all pissy at us. We didnt save the guards and we didn't save the prisoners. They took all our money to heal us back up.

I am pretty peeved at the group, but I didnt want to sway the encounter. None of them felt railroaded. They are now super mad and want revenge. I am mad at them for the town hating my "champion of the people!" Oh well. We now have a reason to go do the next arc, but it will be tougher as the town isnt going to help us anymore.

It appears the DM played this scenario in a way that worked. The one session I decided not to play.

 

[Kordak]

I can speak it a lot, but we're not speaking Japanese here. It comes off as condescending.

What!? Seriously!? I have never heard that before...That wasn't my intent, but whatever dude...You go do your thing. Wow!

 

[Iosue]

What!? Seriously!? I have never heard that before...That wasn't my intent, but whatever dude...You go do your thing. Wow!

Seriously. Look, your sentence here is, "Apologies, Sumimasen, but I don't think you got what I was trying to say with the whole "button thing" there". The apology is not sincere in the first place (you're apologizing to me for me not understanding your point), and then you throw in the Japanese, just based on my location, regardless of whether I'm Japanese or not. Did you think maybe I wouldn't understand "apologies"?

Hey, you say, "That's not my intent," that's cool. I believe you. I'm just letting you know how it comes off.

 

[Kaychsea]

What!? Seriously!? I have never heard that before...That wasn't my intent, but whatever dude...You go do your thing. Wow!

Wow! Somebody reading an intent into something you didn't mean just by reading what you wrote... where have I seen that before...?