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How would you adjudicate rappelling down a string from a flying kite?

Horishijin

First Post
I'd also wonder at the tech level of the game in question, and how much the GM is willing to dip into modern equipment and techniques. Rappelling, as it is done in the modern manner, requires specialized rope (one that is fairly smooth and not too thick..) some sort of harness and a rappell brake (a figure-8, ATC, braking plate or something like that..) With that gear, rappelling is extremely easy (although still dangerous, which is what makes rappelling the most common fatal mountaineering accident..) and only requires one hand (go ask Aron Ralston, who made a 60' free-hanging rap after he cut his own arm off, or read his book about the experience...)

The gear =could= exist in a fantasy setting I suppose. A braking plate is nothing more than a metal plate with a slot in it, through which the rope runs after looping through a carbiner (another piece of modern hardware, but one that a smith could make I guess....) Your rope could be some special weave spider-silk rope. But, this almost becomes a metagaming issue in a way. Because you have seen Army Rangers zipping down out of a helicoptor, it does not mean that your character has seen it, and would be able to direct a smith to make the necessary hardware. But, I guess it depends on the style of your game. I maintain a very medieval model, and therefore would not allow it.

Without this gear it is more problematic. You need to apply a great deal of friction to a rope to slow a person sliding down a rope. It would take an amazing feat of strength to simply apply this friction with your hands. Your gloves would even be likely to catch fire due to the extreme friction generated. Even ATCs and figure-8s are hot as hell after a long rap. Without a braking device of some sort, mountaineers need to resort to wrapping the rope across the hip, over the shoulder and across the back in a position known as a "dulfersitz". Even then, it cannot be done on a free hanging rap, and your feet must remain braced (otherwise you twist out of the rope..) Even though the friction is applied to a large area of the body, I can tell you it still hurts like hell.

dulfersitz.jpg
 

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The tech level has improved the safety of the activity...not enabled the activity.

You can make rappelling gear from rope segements.. twists the living daylights out of it, but it works.

The so called 'French' rap you wind the rope about your arms and shoulders and slide sideways... a good long sleeve shirt will protect you from a fast rappel down a 70' face in this manner. Only took a month for the rope burn to fade from where my sleeve slipped up :heh:


If I get the OP's concept, he wants to recreate the scenes from numourous martial arts movies where the Ninja slide down a rope from above and drop into the midsts of thier targets. I see no reason to Fiat this action as non-possible and think that the rules can be tweaked just slightly to provide an accurate representation of this action.

The side track about light, sneaking, sound... are just that.. sidetracks, albiet interesting ones.

I can see a D20 Flying Kite Ninja Attack as a really cool encounter.


An aside.. as to Aron Ralston... anyone stupid enough to go climbing by themselves does not deserve a book deal... or any of the other 'wow, he is so heroic' bull that he has received. Climbing is inherently a dangerous activity and should never be attempted alone.

Anyone have official rappeling rules in D20 format?
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Oh, please! *pfft!*

This is D&D? Using a hot-air balloon (possible to make using given materials, they're just expensive) float over the campsight from a mere hundred feet up. Then, JUMP off the balloon basket, straight down! Using a tumble check to reduce the fall by 10 feet, that's 9d6 damage, which a D&D character can withstand depending on level! Now THAT's a dramatic entrance! :)
 

Horishijin

First Post
I'm going to agree that Ralston is no hero, any more than Reinhold Messner was for soloing Everest with no O2 (and also got a book deal, but at least he was able to type his with both hands...) Heroism, to me, is putting yourself in the way of danger for the benefit of others. And neither of those two were doing that. I've been canyoneering in Canyonlands National Park, as well as the San Rafael Swell of Utah, and don't really think him that stupid for going alone; the stupid part was not telling anyone where he was going!

The technique you describe as a French Rappel sounds to me like what I would call an Arm Rappel. Sure, done that too, but like a Dulfersitz, I do not think it can be done as a free hanging descent.

To me it just depends on the style of your game. If the style is more cinematic, then that is great, and I am sure this scenario could be fairly adjudicated, and would be a nice fit. That isn't the style of my game, and I would not allow it unless the PC spent years in character developing the techniques and hardware. As I said, I maintain a more historic model, and try to keep the equipment consistent with some sort of historic baseline.
 

BTW, Horishijin, welcome to the boards.. glad to have another climber join in!
Some of the debates get to be.. umm.. interesting. :)

In DnD I tend for cinematic, letting a number of anacronistic ideas intrude. YMMV..

Anyway.. gots to go prep for a game tommorow, one without Ninja's, Kites, or even a nearby cliff for people to fall from...
 

domino

First Post
Primitive Screwhead said:
The tech level has improved the safety of the activity...not enabled the activity.

You can make rappelling gear from rope segements.. twists the living daylights out of it, but it works.
...
If I get the OP's concept, he wants to recreate the scenes from numourous martial arts movies where the Ninja slide down a rope from above and drop into the midsts of thier targets. I see no reason to Fiat this action as non-possible and think that the rules can be tweaked just slightly to provide an accurate representation of this action.
Not as such, I don't watch those movies very often.

The main idea was however, a method that could be used in a 0 magic campaign, or rather, a tactic that does not use the more common spells for the thing. Yes, you could do it with invisibility. But that's nowhere near as cool.

And you're also right about the tech level. People have been climbing ropes with nothing more than rope. Rappel was probably an error on my part. Any way of getting down would work.

Heck, if you tied the rope to the person, put the kite on a string with a hoop, and then had people hold the rope, and had the person hold the kite, then he could go up, signal somehow, and have the friends lower him, while the kite stays aflight, and he is lowered by his friends. With all those people lowering him, he'll not fall as long as the kite stays up, and he's got both hands free.

Alternatively, you could just climb down, the way they always made kids do in gym.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Hey I've got a Kite Flyer PrC imc who can fly on kites. I've personally enjoyed the sport of kite surfing and trust me big kites can lift huge weights

kites fly best at an angle to their anchor point and so all you need to ensure is a steady wind direction (using either magic or good meterology (K:Nature check should do))
 

Sledge

First Post
Well I'd allow it only if the player can hum either "Mission Impossible" or one of the thematic James Bond tracks. ;)

Seriously the kite rope would have to be incredibly long, and the player would have a lot of drift during descent. Climb check would be right, with rope use synergy as normal and bonuses for superior equipment.
 

Horishijin

First Post
Primitive Screwhead said:
BTW, Horishijin, welcome to the boards.. glad to have another climber join in!
Some of the debates get to be.. umm.. interesting. :)

In DnD I tend for cinematic, letting a number of anacronistic ideas intrude. YMMV..

Anyway.. gots to go prep for a game tommorow, one without Ninja's, Kites, or even a nearby cliff for people to fall from...

Hey, thanks for the welcome!

And I run either Midnight, or my own spin on the ancient Harn setting by Columbia Games, so you can only imagine how gritty I like my games...
 


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