How would you build a melee wizard?

[Halivar]

In my group we love talking about the 1st ed. wizard, which was almost never complete without a longsword and the ability to use it (they must've loved Gandalf). Then we talk about how much multi-classes wizard/fighters suck in 3rd ed.

It was recently demonstrated to me that, at sufficiently high levels, a cleric can fill a fighter's roll. That got me thinking: can a wizard or sorceror, from their own repetiore of spells, fill out the tank roll?

So, here's the challenge: how tough can you make a wizard for melee combat without multiclassing fighter? I look at spells like true strike, armor, shield (which stacks with armor), enlarge, magic weapon, bull's strength, and of course, Tenser's magic transformation and I have to say that a wizard properly played could make a stand up melee character (not a fighter by any stetch of the imagination, but not a pushover).

So if you HAD to build a straight wizard with a point-buy and a lean towards melee combat, how would you do it?

 

[FrankTrollman]

I'd invest in unarmed combat feats.

Then when I hit 9th level I would fight exclusively by Scrying on my opposition, Polymorphing into a badass, and then teleporting in and eating them.

A BAB of +4 - but when you have a strength of 27 and three attacks - who cares?

-Frank

 

[Piratecat]

In my group we love talking about the 1st ed. wizard, which was almost never complete without a longsword and the ability to use it (they must've loved Gandalf).

Might you be mis-remembering? 1st edition wizards were utterly prohibited from using a sword. They couldn't even use one at a minus; they couldn't use one at all. Now, fighter/wizards on the other hand....

Hit points are a wizard's big weakness, followed by a lousy BAB. In order to make a tough wizard in 3e, to start off I'd make my con second only to my int, and I'd make myself a con boosting item as quickly as possible. Enchant arms and armor is also important, in order to give mself as useful a weapon as possible. That feat can also be used to make magic armor, if the DM allows the quality that reduces arcane spell failure.

I'll let someone else worry about spells.

 

[Belgarath]

Might you be mis-remembering? 1st edition wizards were utterly prohibited from using a sword. They couldn't even use one at a minus; they couldn't use one at all.

Correction, a wizard could use a longsword with a -5 non proficiency penalty. The could not take a proficiency in the sword.

 

[clark411]

Build a straight Wiz with point buy that leans towards melee... I couldn't do it. However with 1 level of Fighter, lets work.

Emwan Abrams
Dwarven Wizard 1 / Fighter 1
STR 13
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 15
WIS 10
CHA 6

Feats: Scribe Scroll, Still Spell, Expertise

In time, I'd get Craft Arms and Armor, make myself a sword, shield, and full plate. I'd have all my utility spells in scroll form, and my 2nd highest level offensive/defensive spells memorized with Still Spell metamagic on them. Possibly would pick up Craft Wand or Wondrous Item and make a few wands or 5/day big spell weapons. With CWI i'd also make myself some Con, Int, and Str gear (in that order) to up hp, up my spell saves, and finally reduce any skill check penalties I had from my equipment.

Tactically, I'd enjoy expertise with True Strike cast, and I'd enjoy full plate and dwarven speed with Expeditious Retreat. Later on, the fun really starts with the right spell selection.

The biggest issues are as mentioned, low hp, low bab, and also not yet mentioned, money. You'll be dealing with keeping your spellbook updated AND keeping your gear up to speed. The craft feat will make it twice as easy for you to handle your gear, but every gold piece not going to your spell selection is just that... one less gold going to your spell selection.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I've been playing one for the past 2 years in the RPGA's Living Greyhawk campaign. The key is finding synergy between your fighter and your wizard abilities. If you don't you're either a wizard with a lousy caster level or a fighter with lousy hit points and a pathetic BAB. If you can find your niche, however, you can create something effective.

There are two basic types of fighter/wizard: the wizard with a little bit of fighter and the fighter with a little bit of wizard. Since I'm more familiar with the first, I'll discuss it first.

That niche has changed a lot between 3.0 and 3.5.

In 3.0, the niche was high AC.
Normal Armor+real shield+shield spell+dex+long term buffs+haste=very good AC.
Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Endurance, False Life, and Polymorph Self could be used to gain physical stats that were at least equal if not superior to the mundane fighter. Haste equalized attacks. Quickened spells or Spellsword channel (useful ability but whatever you do don't take more than two levels of the class) added to your damage potential.

In 3.5 it's much harder to get good AC so you'll have to focus on offense and on miss chances more.

Good spells:
Alter Self (AC boost)
Polymorph Self (physical stat boost, AC boost, size boost (important for tripping, etc)
False Life (hit point boost)
Heroism (medium duration buff helps with your BAB problem)
Mirror Image+blink have good synergy
Ray of Enfeeblement (yet another way to make yourself safer and your enemies more vulnerable to tripping).
There's good synergy between Blink or Improved Invisibility and Expert Tactician. There's marginal synergy between Power Attack and True Strike (better in 3.5 but still not that useful)

Stats: You'll want a good mix of physical stats and intelligence; but you can live with an intelligence as low as 13.

My recommendations on 28 point buy:
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 8
or Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
With higher point buys, I'd increase intelligence first then con or strength.

Feats:
3.0 Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Combat Reflexes, Expert Tactician
3.5 Quicken Spell (so you can cast and attack in the same round), Combat Reflexes (good in its own right since 3.5 combat is very focussed on reach), Expert Tactician, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Power Attack

 

[Oni]

With a last will and testament to leave all their worldly belongings to my next character?


Seriously HP would be your friend. So much so I personally would say that Con would be your most important stat even over Int, as a large portion of your spells are going to be buffing spells and so your spell DC's don't matter as much. Also you definately want to be casting defensively since you'll likely be in the thick of it and you don't want to bung up your spells.

I think, as per your original thought, that a sorcerer might be better suited since the buffing spells are limited in 3.5 and so whipping one off when you need it might be more convenient.

Though on the other hand, wizard would give more flexability regarding item creation, and this is probably a character that is going to have to gird themselves with a lot of the right items to survive.

On the other hand if self suffiency isn't what your looking for completely and yo u have other casters in your party you might be able to get them to provide the spells so that you can use your item creation feats. However the problem here is that if you aren't proficient in armour then you apply the armour check penalty to attack rolls, and that is definately no good given an already limited BAB. It takes 3 feats to get to heavy armour, so that is likely not worth it and since we cannot get it by branching out to another class, shield prof. feat might however be worth it.

If you willing to look goofy lugging around a tower shield, then silent spell might be useful, giving up some of your higher level spells for the ability not to lose them on casting isn't so bad.

Anyway more thoughts later.

 

[Plane Sailing]

A 1st level human wizard transmuter specialist (pick what he gives up) who acts like a fighter? (i've not got point buy costs with me, but just assuming)

St 12
De 14
Co 16
In 13
Wi 10
Ch 8

first level feats - Martial Weapon (Greatsword), toughness *(or light armour prof)

first level spells - enlarge, shield, truestrike.

Wears chain shirt (with shield spell and dex for AC 20).

He has 10hp.

When enlarged he gets Str 14, Dex 12, his AC goes down to 18 but he has 10ft reach with his sword for 3d6+3 damage and +1 to hit overall.

Carry scrolls around of enlarge and shield (in case your spell failure stops them going off!).

If he has a couple of rounds of prep for an encounter, he could be an effective fighter for his level.

Second level spells would include endurance and false life as early purchases, alongside mirror image and blur. 3rd feat would be create wondrous item, 5th level bonus feat is enchant arms and armour and the normal feat could be extend spell or combat expertise or something.

Each attribute increase goes into INT, which keeps him in line for minimum Int to cast spells until he reaches 13th level, at which point he can't cast 7th level spells... unless he has an INT enhancing magic by that time (which seems very likely).

You could have fun with a character like that in many campaigns.

Cheers

 

[The Souljourner]

False Life is your friend! 1d10 +1/lvl temporary hitpoints that last all day. That's the equivalent of getting d8 hitpoints when you cast it at 5th level, and the equivalent of slightly better than d6 hitpoints until 15th level. Plus you can cast it multiple times, it's not quite healing, but it's not far off either.

At high levels, empowering it can continue to give you that great d6 feeling.

I'm actually planning on playing a character like this in an upcoming campaign. Don't forget Eldritch knight. It's pretty much a must for anyone who wants to do fighter/wizard.

-The Souljourner

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Might you be mis-remembering? 1st edition wizards were utterly prohibited from using a sword. They couldn't even use one at a minus; they couldn't use one at all.

Correction, a wizard could use a longsword with a -5 non proficiency penalty. The could not take a proficiency in the sword.

Wasn't that in 2nd edition?

AR