How would you feel about giving Finger of Death the ability to create different undead if upcasted?

[KombatKingo]

Title. I feel like 5e has neglected the undead overlords far too much, and am hoping this will help alleviate that a bit. So far what I've come up with is:


Spell Slot Level 7 - zombie or skeleton


Spell Slot Level 8 - shadow or bigger zombie


Spell Slot Level 9 - ghoul or specter, possibly ghast?


So yeah, I've thought about this a bit, and while I feel it's kinda strong, it's not that overwhelming, since those levels are the ones where you get access to Wish and all the other fun stuff.
If you think it's OP, please tell me how you think I could improve it!

 

[aco175]

Initial thought is that creating a skeleton with a 7th level spell slot is underwhelming. The PC is 14th level at that time and a skeleton is no threat to anyone at that level. It could be a butler or something non-combat related, but not threatening to much.

Maybe give a range of hit dice the caster can choose from to create something. A 7th level slot creates 5HD worth of undead. That could be a few skeletons or a shadow. You can even create a 5th level skeleton with more power than a normal one. This way the player can choose something for the situation.

 

[KombatKingo]

I don't really think creating multiple minions with that spell would make much sense, after all it's only 1 corpse it has access to. I do like the HD idea though, but I think it could be a bit more streamlined. Perhaps limiting the CR of undead one can create with a casting of Finger of Death? Of course, the CR also rising if upcasted.

 

[jgsugden]

The undead is a fun quirk on this spell, not a major feature. I'd avoid giving away undead that have abilities that might be significant in a battle, such as a ghoul's paralysis, even for a 9th level slot. Even if the enemy is only paralyzed on a 20, if you cast this spell a number of times and get a bunch of ghouls, it could be a bit much...

 

[nswanson27]

Maybe have the undead come up with an AOE fear spell going off centered where they are being animated.
"Honey, you got real ugly..." -Ash

 

[KombatKingo]

I disagree with the idea that the undead is not a major feature on this spell. After all, Disintegrate, a spell 1 level lower, has higher damage AND can be used for some nice terraforming. However, this spell has lower damage, but i believe it makes up for that with the permanent undead creation. It wouldn't make sense to have it be a level 7 spell if it didn't create an undead IMO, might fit more nicely in level 4 or 5. Especially since it targets Constitution, which is many monsters' highest stat, along with strength.

 

[guachi]

Are these permanent undead that don't require control like animate dead? I'm fine with repurposing spells like this. Could be fun!

 

[KombatKingo]

Yep, these ones don't require to be reasserted over. Get 'em once, get 'em forever!

 

[Gadget]

I'm thinking that if the undead created are permanently under the caster's control without having to reassert control, that might break the 'minion economy' that 5e has established for 5e. This is despite the fact that most of the undead created are somewhat trivial at the level when the spellcaster can use this spell.

 

[jgsugden]

I disagree with the idea that the undead is not a major feature on this spell. After all, Disintegrate, a spell 1 level lower, has higher damage AND can be used for some nice terraforming. However, this spell has lower damage, but i believe it makes up for that with the permanent undead creation. It wouldn't make sense to have it be a level 7 spell if it didn't create an undead IMO, might fit more nicely in level 4 or 5. Especially since it targets Constitution, which is many monsters' highest stat, along with strength.

I didn't say they are not a part of the spell, but they are not a major part of the spell. When you cast this spell, the damage is reduced because you get that zombie, but it isn't exactly like the PC wizard that casts this spell is going to leap for joy when the enemy wizard dies... because he gets a permanent zombie.

I'm thinking that if the undead created are permanently under the caster's control without having to reassert control, that might break the 'minion economy' that 5e has established for 5e. This is despite the fact that most of the undead created are somewhat trivial at the level when the spellcaster can use this spell.

As written, the zombie is permanently under your control. No question there. It would be much more difficult if the FoD created more powerful undead that were permanently under your control, especially if those undead could create underling undead that were permanently under their control. As is, having the ability to turn your murder victims into zombies casually is not terribly unbalancing - no PC has abused it, although NPCs have used it to create 'free' labor.