D&D 4E How would you re-envision Darksun with 4e?

[Zaruthustran]

Definitely box set material. I think 4E should approach settings as "prestige" products, and include all kinds of cool goodness in addition to the standard rules & gazeteer: starter adventure module, cloth map of the "world", city maps of the main cities, handful of iconic miniatures, code for a download of appropriate background music, custom terrain tiles (oasis, market, arena, temple, salt flat, tents, caravan), short fiction (perhaps an excerpt or prologue to a companion novel), art book.

Since Athas is brutal and prone to the whims of dictators, I think it'd be fun to create a mechanism for the playerbase to radically alter the canonical gameworld. Perhaps set it up so everyone who buys the setting (and registers the unique product code online) can vote to influence the progress of the world. Want to eliminate Tieflings from the world? If enough people get together, you can make it happen. Annual updates would establish these big changes in the setting's canon. For the given example, the in-game explanation could be that a massive uprising takes place and there is a genocidal purge that is brutally effective. From then on, "Tiefling" is no longer an official player race for the setting.

Gladiators are a part of Athas, so I'd create some kind of mechanism for online arena combat. Perhaps using the virtual tabletop, I'd allow registered players to use point-buy and fixed wealth limits to create characters and pit them against each other in 4E combat. This would be like a play-by-mail system, with one turn per day. It's fun, fits the setting, and incorporates some of WotC's online initiatives. I'd make this arena exclusive to Dark Sun (at least at first); as the only mechanism for "official" 1 on 1 D&D character duels it'd attract the character optimization/powergamer crowd and drive sales of the boxed set.

I'd also add rules for various forms of unarmed martial arts. I know Noonan wanted to bar monks from the world, but look: if the setting itself makes weapons scarce, the populace would come up with ways to use their own bodies as weapons. Look at the real history of the development of unarmed martial arts. With metal rare and arena bloodsport common, it just makes sense for unarmed martial arts to develop.

That said, I'd make the rules for unarmed martial arts more "realistic" and less mystical (except when augmented by psionics via certain feats or class options): no d20 damage die for a punch. Bottom line is that mundane unarmed martial arts should generally be a better option than fighting untrained, and generally a worse option than swinging a steel sword. But given that weapons tend to break on Athas, unarmed martial arts stay relevant.

 

[Dragonblade]

I'd scrap most of the Dragon magazine article and anything that came from TSR's horrible attempt at a Revised Dark Sun box set. The wussified version was trash. The only real Dark Sun was the original box set. None of this halfling bio-tech BS. None of this watered down Strength table BS. I was so utterly disgusted when I bought the revised box set and saw how they had emasculated my beloved setting.

Dark Sun was The Road Warrior meets D&D, post apocalyptic fantasy done right. The only thing I would keep would be the moving the timeline ahead by 300 years.

That being said, I know too little about 4e to consider how it should look ruleswise.

 

[DreamChaser]

I'm sorry...the grammar guy in me won't let me ignore this...

the verb of "revision" is "revise." Revision is not a verb.

On topic...my answer on this would have to wait for the 4e psionics rules, without which no real discussion of Dark Sun 4e can be had.

DC

 

[Greg K]

You are a stand-up kinda guy. Thanks for the source.

Glad to include the source from WOTC_Dave. If you did not see it, I also reposted Chris Perkins's post regarding WOTC R&D approving the material.

 

[Greg K]

I'd also add rules for various forms of unarmed martial arts. I know Noonan wanted to bar monks from the world, but look: if the setting itself makes weapons scarce, the populace would come up with ways to use their own bodies as weapons. Look at the real history of the development of unarmed martial arts. With metal rare and arena bloodsport common, it just makes sense for unarmed martial arts to develop.

It's been a long time, but didn't the Tribe of One novels include an order of female psychic monks?

 

[The Little Raven]

Glad to include the source from WOTC_Dave. If you did not see it, I also reposted Chris Perkins's post regarding WOTC R&D approving the material.

I saw it. Perkins' post leads me to think that WotC didn't want to change Paizo's rendition because they respect Paizo and wanted them to have autonomy (which may have been damaged if they had said "No, you can't do that to Dark Sun.") while managing Dragon and Dungeon (thus, why they didn't revert Noonan's writings, despite Noonan being a WotC employee).

 

[Greg K]

I saw it. Perkins' post leads me to think that WotC didn't want to change Paizo's rendition because they respect Paizo and wanted them to have autonomy (which may have been damaged if they had said "No, you can't do that to Dark Sun.") while managing Dragon and Dungeon (thus, why they didn't revert Noonan's writings, despite Noonan being a WotC employee).

Except that WOTC had to approve the material anyway, so was there true autonomy? And, imo, if WOTC had final approval, it was their responsability to protect the setting's integrity and they failed to do so.

 

[Spatula]

Ditto on the original box set being the only "true" Dark Sun, but unfortunately the setting's fans - or at least the ones running Athas.org - have embraced all the later story developments. Removing all that from the table just isn't going to happen, and so Dark Sun remains a sad husk of a once-interesting setting.

In any case, the new elves look like they would work very well as Athasian elves. The halflings probably will as well (as did the 3e halflings). The new approach to races-with-extra-powers may make the half-giant and thri-kreen much more workable than they have been in the past, but we haven't seen any actual examples of how this works yet.

Dragonborn could fit very easily into Athas, but they'd need a name & background change. But they would probably step on the toes of the half-giant & mul races. Tieflings would have no real reason to exist (nor warlocks).

The lack of psionics & the druid class obviously gets in the way of converting the setting out of the gate.

 

[Klaus]

I could see Monk as a specialized Psychic Warrior.

Preserver/Defiler would be a new class.

Dragon of Athas would be an Epic Destiny.

 

[Najo]

The lack of psionics & the druid class obviously gets in the way of converting the setting out of the gate.

The lack of a druid in core but needed in Dark Sun, and things like the warlock not fitting in does suggest that the rumor about them making a campaign setting player's book (with classes, races, spells, equipment, feats) and a DM guide (setting, monsters, magic items, etc) might be true.

This is also why they put fluff in the corebooks that are coming. Because campaign settings are going to have redone core materials appropiate to the setting everytime.

Otherwise, it means you have to buy the campaign setting and player's handbook 1 and 2 and the psionic handbook etc. Instead, Dark Sun would be buy the Dark Sun Player's Handbook, Dark Sun DM guide and the Psionic handbook (unless they put psionics in the player's guide).