D&D 4E How would you re-envision Darksun with 4e?

[Kesh]

Otherwise, it means you have to buy the campaign setting and player's handbook 1 and 2 and the psionic handbook etc. Instead, Dark Sun would be buy the Dark Sun Player's Handbook, Dark Sun DM guide and the Psionic handbook (unless they put psionics in the player's guide).

My understanding is rather the opposite. For instance, psionics is currently believed to be a "power source" for PHB2/DMG2/MM2, and you'll buy the Eberron Campaign setting that same year which takes advantage of the new power source (Kalashtar, etc.).

 

[Raduin711]

One of the things about dark sun is that it does things that WOTC may not be willing to do.

For instance, actively excluding certain elements from the campaign. In fact, Dark Sun excludes a lot of material from the setting. Racially, many races are, by cannon, not present because they were exterminated long ago in the history of the setting. Those that are present are so drastically different that any material for these races outside of the setting are nearly useless, or peculiar to include. Take the arcane archer PrC; while there isn't anything about elves in DS that says that they couldn't practice this blend of archery and magic, there isn't anything about this race that suggests that they would need or want this kind of tradition. They aren't woodland archers or mages. They are desert wanderers and thieves. It would seem odd to use this PrC.

Could WotC publish a setting that actively shuts out material? Considering what we saw in 3rd ed, I am not sure that they could.

Greyhawk was their Tabula Rasa. Forgotten Realms, with all its detail is not so different that anything couldn't be used in it; one could even make a case for playing a warforged created by Lantanese gnomes. And Eberron took the design mantra that anything published could be used somewhere in the setting.

But then again, this is a new edition, and they may approach it differently.

But on to the setting: I think that it would be cool to get it back into a position where the Sorcerer Kings were back on top. Last we left off, most of the sorcerer kings are dead or gone. It would be nice to bring a few back.

So here's the status of the SK's...

Sacha and Wyan got squished by Rikus. It may be hard to bring them back. They were very sly, however. It would be cool to have them back in some respect.

Kalak is obviously gone, but it would be cool to kick off the setting with perhaps some attempt at resurrecting him. He seems to be something of a punching bag for pc's.

Dregoth is clearly going to be a major player, whatever happens. He knows the secrets to undeath, and would appear to be the most powerful SK alive.

Myron is long dead. He is an interesting piece of lore, however, and finding some way of making this past champion relevant to the present would be cool.

Hamanu is still around, and should remain so. A major power outside of the city of Tyr...

Ablach-Re was killed by Sadira. Her death just seemed so unlikely. I would like to see her return. Remember as well that Dregoth has a large dislike of her, considering she led the other SK's to kill him. Making her his undead puppet would be a dream come true for Dregoth...

Nibenay is an interesting character. I sometimes wonder about his relationship with Lalali-Puy. While they are technically in conflict, I kind of like the idea of a love/hate relationship. One moment, Nibenay is attacking Gulg. The next, they are romantically involved. Can you imagine the child of two SK's?

Sielba was the SK of Yaramuke and has been dead for some time... Again, how can we make this bit of Lore relevant?

Andropinis was banished to the black. I think I like the idea of him escaping prematurely.

Oronis is another factor. With so many of the SK's dead or so involved in themselves, it would be time for him to make his move. New Kurn perhaps isn't so much a secret any more.

Borys' story seems to be done. I think it is time for dregoth to take the reigns as the primary menace to Athas.

Daskinor will probably be as he always was. Locked up in Eldaarich with paranoid delusions.

Kalid-Ma supposedly could be returned from ravenloft to Athas. It is time to make good on that threat. And perhaps she brings a bit of Ravenloft with her?

And the questions of Irikos and Pennarin should probably be dealt with in the new book. It is clear that there are blatant contradictions, and finding some middle ground is probably the best.

 

[Steely Dan]

I would like the timeline frozen just before the Prism Pentad.

And as someone else said, Brom must do all the artwork, when that talent-less schmoe, Baxa started doing a lot of the artwork it was almost enough to put me off.

 

[Najo]

I'm sorry...the grammar guy in me won't let me ignore this...

the verb of "revision" is "revise." Revision is not a verb.

On topic...my answer on this would have to wait for the 4e psionics rules, without which no real discussion of Dark Sun 4e can be had.

DC

We can assume that psionics are going to be similar in flavor and as been stated will focus on enchanment/ charms and mind over body type effects. Psionics won't mimic the magic controller elements of the wizard or the flash bang of the warlock. They will likely use mind power/ controller type abilties.

Knowing that, we can then speak purely about the fluff and setting of Dark Sun 4e instead of the rules. How should Dark Sun's setting be overhauled for 4e?

 

[Najo]

I would like the timeline frozen just before the Prism Pentad.

And as someone else said, Brom must do all the artwork, when that talent-less schmoe, Baxa started doing a lot of the artwork it was almost enough to put me off.

I agree, Baxa really turned me off. Brom all the way.

 

[Lorthanoth]

Well Baxa was doing art work from day 1 in the original box set, so I was immediately torn between Brom's almost haunting work and Baxa's reallly terrible stuff.

 

[Klaus]

I agree, Baxa really turned me off. Brom all the way.

Or at least Brom and Me!

 

[frankthedm]

I'd bring it back to the original boxed set.

I'd chain Brom to a chair and have him paint as much as possible.

Need a hand with that?

I think we can all agree, one of the best things about darksun was the art of BROM. It really gave life to the world for me.

It took the D&D game back to Pre-Tolkien Sword and Sorcery. Brom's art cemented the feel of the world without the superfluous sexuality that Boris Vallejo and Frank Frazetta usually had in thier work.

High point s of Dark*Sun IMHO

• Slavery and the inhumanities inherent therein. The strong own the weak and freedom has to be taken.
  
• Arcane Magic as a destructive and corrupting force. Magic make the world a worse place, not a better one.
  
• No Gods to take interest in the world. One’s success comes from them self, not divine providence.
  
• All rulers are incredibly evil and powerful. Regicide is the answer, but no one has been strong enough and brave enough to do so.
  
• The world is dying. Your deeds can not save it. Your deeds do not make a better Tomorrow, they make a better Today.

If I'm doing Dark sun

Kalak still reins. The players can take him down if they are strong enough and smart enough to derail his mechanations, but none of this "Uber NPCs kill Kalak while the players watch" in the first damned adventure.

Defiling

When you use an arcane magic effect, if you do not wish to defile, you must choose one of these;

Preserve by using less power: suffer a -1 penalty to class level and -2 on "the d20 roll" with the spell.
Preserve by slowly drawing power: The time to use a swift action arcane power becomes a move action{still uses up the swift action], a standard action arcane power increases to one round. An arcane power that takes longer than a standard action requires twice the normal amount of time to complete.
[sblock=defiling areas converted to 5' grid squares]

Defiling radius* by spell level
Plants	0th	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th
Barren	20'	30'	40'	50'	60'	65'	70'	80'	85'	90'
Sparse	5'	10'	10'	10'	15'	15'	15'	15'	20'	20'
Lush	S	5'	5'	5'	10'	10'	10'	10'	10'	10'
Forest	S	S	S	5'	5'	5'	5'	5'	10'	10'
S: Only one square of the caster's space is defiled
*Each additional spell in that area adds 5' to the radius of the highest level defiling spell.

And here is a quick pick showing what those radii look like.

[/sblock]

[sblock=My take on defiling 'taint']Sorry, IMHO the Taint of a defiler is that they have blasted athas to barren wasteland, can never be good, and cause all wizards to be hated. Dark sun was not about using supernatural punishments for the unheroic, that was Ravenloft. Brom era Dark sun was about survival in a blasted land ruled by wicked sorcerer kings where the very concept of paladin had gone extinct long ago. Defilers even earned XP notably faster than preservers to boot. What balances that out? Nothing other than how much your allies are willing to put up / be seen with you.

Being a preserver means you are taking the moral high road on a world where that is not rewarded. If the DM wants to reward that, make the Veiled Alliance more helpful.

The revised Dark sun box set gave defilers a Charisma penalty when interacting with others to offset the faster advancement.
1st-5th level -2 Cha
6th-10th -4 cha
11th-15th -6 Cha
16th-20th -8 Cha[/sblock]

 

[frankthedm]

Dragonborn could fit very easily into Athas, but they'd need a name & background change. But they would probably step on the toes of the half-giant & mul races.

There is a name and background awaiting them already TBH...

..tall, lean draconic being with scaly skin, hairless body, and clawed limbs. It has no wings, but its reptilian features, combined with its long tail, leave you in little doubt as to its heritage.

Dray are a race of intelligent draconic humanoids created by Dregoth, the undead dragon king of Giustenal. Through his experience as a Champion of Rajaat and an advanced being, Dregoth came to believe that the dragon was the next step in human evolution, and created the dray to explore this belief. His initial experiments were unsuccessful but eventually led to the creation of the first generation of dray. These, however, proved to be flawed, imperfect beings and were unlovely in the eye of their creator. Dregoth banished them to the depths of the earth beneath Giustenal and redoubled his efforts. The second generation of dray was the result and in their lean contours and sleek lines Dregoth finally found the loyal children that he so desired.

 

[Dausuul]

First, I would go back to the setting's roots. Jettison most of the bizarre history and strange cosmology that got grafted onto the setting as time went on, scrap the Revised setting, bring back the Dragon of Tyr, and concentrate on the stuff from the original Dark Sun boxed set: A desolate world under a red sun, blasted by life-sucking magic and full of arrogant sorceror-kings and desperate slaves.

Make metal equipment ungodly expensive, and apply a multiplier to the cost of magic items made out of metal (or maybe metal is the equivalent of a +1 bonus). That way WBL doesn't simply overwhelm the metal-poor nature of the world.

Use the warlock class to represent templar. As far as preserver versus defiler magic, I'd make defiling into a wizard talent tree of some kind. Something like this (obviously it would need balancing):

Defiling: You have turned to the darker path of magic, rending life from your surroundings without regard for what you kill. Each of your Daily and Encounter wizard powers can be used one additional time per encounter or per day, as appropriate. However, each time you cast a spell, you destroy all the plant life in a certain area. In typical terrain, you destroy a number of squares equal to half the level of the spell. In fertile or lush terrain, you destroy squares equal to one-quarter the level of the spell. In barren terrain, you destroy squares equal to the level of the spell.

All of the plant life you destroy must be within a radius of 1 square (5 feet) per caster level. If there are not enough squares left un-defiled, you cannot cast the spell.

Oh--and becoming a dragon or avangion is quite obviously an epic destiny.