Hunter of the Dead Questions

[Caliber]

I know this has been asked before, but for the life of me I cannot remember what conclusion (if any) was ever reached.

One of the abilities the Hunter of the Dead gets is that undead they put down, stay down. The question itself is how exactly does said ability interact with undead creatures like Vampires or Liches?

As a side note, what would happen to a Vampire that manged to get destroyed on a Turn attempt? Would it be gone gone, or just regenerating in its coffin?

Since I am going to be running HoNFS soon, I really only care about how the Hunter interacts with Vampires, but I always enjoy learning so throw your thoughts on here.

Anyone mind jogging my memory?

 

[Cyraneth]

Well, I wouldn't consider an undead "slain" until it is unable to rise again by itself. A vampire that is reduced to 0 hit points is merely forced into gaseous form, not slain. Anyway, as the ability doesn't mention turning (or ranged attacks for that matter), I don't think the True Death ability extends to undead slain by turning.

- Cyraneth.

 

[Jeremy]

All in all as a class, the undead hunter doesn't have all that much going for him for so specialized a class except True Death.

It's known IMC that these are the guys you want to have around if combatting anything that can either create spawn or "respawn".

If he causes damage with a melee strike to the gaseous vampire while he's fleeing; the vamp is vapor. If he gets the last blow in on a lich, then the phylactery will do it no more good than a donation in Lathander's offering plate.

Which means a couple of things... The class is more attractive. Members of the class are occasionally targets of pre-emptive strikes by powerful undead. And melee characters have one more ability that a spellcaster can't duplicate with ease.

 

[reapersaurus]

very good calls, Jeremy.

For a class that's supposed to be a killer of undead, the Hunter sucks.

Thr True Death is really the only interesting aspect.

 

[Atticus_of_Amber]

...

For a class that's supposed to be a killer of undead, the Hunter sucks.

...

Hmmm, have you read PC's story hour? Malachite (Pal5/HotD10, AFAIR) seems to be devastatingly effective against undead...

 

[Caliber]

I have to say I like Jeremy's interpretation. I will go with that.

As a side note, I house rule HotD to have a stackable Turn Ability much like a Sacred Exorcist.

Helps catapult the class back into the realm of useful.

 

[reapersaurus]

Hmmm, have you read PC's story hour? Malachite (Pal5/HotD10, AFAIR) seems to be devastatingly effective against undead...

Oh come on *laughing*
you're not seriously using a STORY HOUR to judge the effectiveness of a PrC, are you?

 

[Jeremy]

Hmmm, have you read PC's story hour? Malachite (Pal5/HotD10, AFAIR) seems to be devastatingly effective against undead...

Malachite is an effective high level character fighting various low to mid to high level undead, but it is mainly due to his level and equipment more so than his particular class. A number of other prestige classes could make him much more effective at specifically killing undead, but that's not a concern of that group.

The only effective abilities of the hunter of the dead class he has been given opportunity to employ are detect undead and positive energy burst. Postive energy burst is an interesting application of turning but is not as powerful as one might think if you actually look at the mechanic. First off you have to be an 8th level HoD to get it, so you'd think it'd be pretty powerful. But in actuality it's only an 8d6 blast with a save for half. Great for mowing down hordes of low level ghouls, but not as impressive as a 30 odd hit dice of undead destruction that simply a well equipped paladin or cleric could pull off without prestige class levels. The range is nice, 100' radius (HUGE!), all the better for mowing through armies of weak undead, but the damage goes from 8d6 to 10d6 and no higher. And the DC for the reflex save goes from 18 to 20 and no higher.

Not very impressive for the big payoff of the class.

A prestige class that requires you be permanently stat or level drained by your hated foe to join, and concentrates solely on the destruction of the critters, should offer more bang than that in my humble opinion. The more focused a prestige class, that is, the less often their powers will come into play, the more powerful those powers should be when finally employed. Again, that's just my opinion.

For a true "Hunter of the Dead" see Brother Joaquim by Carpe DM.

 

[Jeremy]

I have to say I like Jeremy's interpretation. I will go with that.

As a side note, I house rule HotD to have a stackable Turn Ability much like a Sacred Exorcist.

Helps catapult the class back into the realm of useful.

Thanks!

And I agree, that is a good idea to help them out.

Given a rod of authority or amulet of undead turning or even just a cloak of charisma, that will go a lot farther to helping combat undead then 8d6 (reflex half).

 

[Jeremy]

I can't resist.

Check out what the Radiant Servant of Pelor can do to undead...

Brother Joachim "Liches are my Bitches" Smackdown
Originally posted by Carpe DM

Editor’s Note: I can’t post the original post, and the subsequent fixes, so I’ll just post the closest version to a corrected maximized version. Please see the original post for detailed analysis.

Using your 11th Level example, we have: Clr 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 5

TURNING CHECK:

+3 (consecrate. +6 if you use the shrine / haversack trick)
+10 (heighten--notice I'm not using the whole bit, just enough to get +19)
+6 (charisma)
+2 (glory)
-2 (empower)
---
+19 to turn check. This guarantees a +4.

Then we calculate effective level.

EFFECTIVE LEVEL:

+4 (turning check result)
+2 (sacred armor)
+2 (sacred shield)
+4 (amulet of turning)
+4 (rod of authority)
+11 (level)
---
27, effective level. So, the smack will destroy anything of 27th level or less.

Finally, we do turning damage. Effective level does NOT plug into turning damage, but cleric / turning prestige class levels do. And since those magic items which added to effective level also add to damage, we count them again. Note that the turning check bonus to effective level DOESN'T seem to carry across. It simply says to add your level, not your effective level.

+2 (Sacred armor)
+2 (Sacred shield)
+4 (rod of authority)
+4 (amulet of turning)
+11 (level)
+6 (charisma: I know you used +9; this is adjustable)
-10 (heighten)
+2d6 (base)
+2d6 (empower)
+1d6 (glory)
---
5d6 + 19, for an average of 19+ 17.5 = 36.5.

Note that this framework would only be used if the cleric were trying to wipe out a very high level monster (37 hit dice) and didn't care about damage.

If we were going after our average 11th level monster, you'd drop the heighten turning, and go for the gusto on the turning damage. In that case you'd do 5d6 + 29= 17.5 + 29 = 46.5 turning damage of hit dice.

best,

Carpe


11th level! He blasts a 27 HD undead out of existance at 11th level. (Or 46 HD of 1-17 hd critters--what's that? 15-20 ghouls? And I'm not sure if you can multiple empower a turn, but if you balance out your empowers with heightens or neglect your turning check and hope you roll good, you could get up to something like 55-60 HD of powerful undead in one blast)

Now imagine if THIS guy was 15-17th level ... Add in quicken turning and haste and watch him blow through the White Kingdom in a couple days.

But as I said, that's not the point in PirateCat's game, it's just a demonstration of how little the Hunter of the Dead as written has got going for him for such a specialized class comparitively to other prestige classes.