I could use a hand with Disguise Self

[Grogtar]

I am currently in a game where Disguise Self, and the Hat of Disguise are very prominent. At least 2 of 5 party members have them and they are used, I kid you not every session. We have a druid who (ab)uses it to do things like :

Be a dire wolf, look like a cow.
Be a dire eagle, look like a crow.
Be a baboon, look vaguly humanoid.
and its not far off : Be a red dragon, look like a gold dragon.

And I cannot, for the life of me, find a way around it. I've spoken to the GM and he reccomends "Gem of Seeing" at 75,000 gp its seems excessive. Like using disintigrate to dispose of refuse.

Can anyone help ? Short of patting everyone I meet down (physical interaction) is there a way around this seemingly INCREDIBLE first level spell ? I know targeted dispells could get rid of it, but its detecting it!

I've thought about getting Detect Magic items, but just about any peron of medium to high level is going to glow like a christmas tree. And the GM is all too happy to let the party move right along while I say "Im detecting Magic" - he says "Okay, so and so stands there for 4 rounds looking constipated, what are you doing ?"

Anyone have any suggestions ?

<edit for spelling>

 

[PrinceZane]

What level is the party? True seeing passes that up right away I thought... If they're gettin close enough to appear from red to gold dragon I'm assuming they're fairly decent in level... True Seeing is level 5th level cleric, 6th wiz/sorc and lasts 1min/level

that is, if they're using the spell like u say and not some disguise kit

 

[Grogtar]

The party is almost 10th level. However its worth noting we have no clerics. We are an odd lot. We have a Paladin/Vassel of Bahamut, a Druid / Wizard / Arcane Heirphant, a Bard -> Fochthian Lyrist, a Wilder and a Mage / Geometer / Celestial Mystic.

There has got to be a way to get around this first level spell short of a 5th level spell.

 

[Jack Simth]

"Studying carefully" grants a will save - as they are getting Disguise self from an item, and it's a first level spell, that save DC is 11. A commoner with a Wis of 10 that studies the character effected by a Hat of Disguise has a 50/50 chance of seeing through it. If you have a wisdom score of 16, and a base will save of +6, you fail the DC only on a 2 or a 1. If you can get a permanent item of detect magic (perhaps lenses that highlight anything magical to your sight; guidelines would put it up around.... 2,000 gp) you even have a reason for studying them. Moreso, if you have a high enough spellcraft modifier to pass the DC 16 Spellcraft check to recognize the Illusion school involved.

 

[Grogtar]

Jack you are my hero.

Is that a house rule, or is it somewhere in the RAW. If so, where ? That is exactly what I am looking for.

 

[Jack Simth]

Except for the item of Detect Magic, it's RAW, even Core; check the SRD:

SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS

Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell.

Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC.

Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly).

(Emphasis added)
and

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

(Emphasis added)


Link to one online SRD

 

[Scratched_back]

...I know targeted dispells could get rid of it, but its detecting it!

Surely though Jack, to detect it, he'd have to have a reason for studying everything carefully... I dare say he couldn't announce to his DM that "Until further notice, I'm carefully studying everything I see."

It'd take him ten minutes to turn his head!

 

[Humanophile]

First, please explain what the problem is? This druid can look like he's a less dangerous creature than he is? On the whole of it, I don't see how bad that really is; at most that gives him one one surprise attack, which is Invisibility's purpose. Given everything else the latter spell can do, I don't see this as gamebreaking for a first level spell. The exception is things like the red dragon => gold dragon, which is impossible by the rules (Polymorph can do it, but Wild Shape is limited to Animal forms). But if you're trying to look like a powerful creature of good, the intent of the spell could have you looking like a great paladin without a hitch. Speaking of which, if you're trying to pass yourself as a great force of good, you'll probably have to deal with other high-level critters. In which case...

Disguise Self
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Trickery 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person.
The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment.
If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.
A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.

If your party has nobody with a good spot modifier, you have nobody to blame if you fail at situations where it would come in handy. Trying to hide a battleready form behind an innocuous one means a seemingly low-level creature has a magical aura; if that cow radiates magic, it's got to be one special cow. So you get a spot check, the "is is magical" test (you can usually aim your cone away from the party), and if it's an actual social interaction, most social interactions require some minor physical interaction. (Seal all deals with a firm handshake if you really want to make sure.) So yes it's nice, but I really fail to see how any of the uses you outlined give the disguisee too much power.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Yeah, once you realize disguise self is just a buff for the Disguise skill, a lot of your problems will disappear. People take all sorts of liberties with this spell, thinking it makes them look any way they want to without fail but that's just not the case.

 

[Jack Simth]

Surely though Jack, to detect it, he'd have to have a reason for studying everything carefully... I dare say he couldn't announce to his DM that "Until further notice, I'm carefully studying everything I see."

It'd take him ten minutes to turn his head!

Hence the suggestion of convincing his DM to let him make an item of continuous Detect Magic. Magic in the area? Wait a moment and see where. Study the aura for another turn and get the strength of the aura (faint, for Disguise Self) and a spellcraft check (DC 16) to determine the school (illusion). Once you have in-character knoweledge of exactly where the magic is (or where the illusion is) it's quite reasonable for his character to study it carefully.