D&D 5E I don't use Passive Perception

[iserith]

From the PHB:
"A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn’t involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster."

When I first read your post, I thought you were wrong about the "always-on radar", but after rereading the PHB, I'm somewhat inclined to agree...

For the case of hidden monster, it does seem the interpretation of "always-on radar" is correct. However, with regards to finding a secret door, it could be read that a player will tell the DM they are searching for secret doors down a corridor, so instead of rolling every 5 feet, the Passive Perception is used. In this case, the term "passive" becomes a misnomer and confuses how it's supposed to be used.

You could also argue from the above quote from PHB that only when a task can be done repeatedly - which assumes failure is not "dangerous" - can a passive check be used. In other words, I don't think it's unreasonable to rule that traps CAN'T be found with Passive Perception if you don't want them to be, or at least not without special circumstances.

I think the best way to look at it in terms of process is as follows:

1. DM describes the environment, including clues that telegraph hidden things.
2. Player describes what he or she wants to do.
3. DM decides if the outcome is certain or uncertain. If certain, go to 4. If uncertain, call for an ability check if it's a one-off task or a passive check if it's a task being performed repeatedly.
4. DM narrates the result of the adventurer's action. Go to 1.

This is consistent with all of the D&D 5e rules in my view and works in all situations. It's also dead simple.

Thus, if a player describes wanting to keep an eye out for hidden monsters and traps whilst traversing the dungeon, the DM is likely to consider that to have an uncertain outcome and, since it's an ongoing effort, apply passive Perception whenever necessary to determine what happens. The character also has to be in the fictional position to notice the monsters and traps. In many cases this may mean in the front rank of the marching order and the character must be moving at a Slow pace (unless the PC has the Dungeon Delver feat) which can be risky. In my campaigns, for example, moving at a Slow pace means your chance of running afoul of a wandering monster goes up.

Performing any other task that is at least as distracting as Navigating, Drawing a Map, Foraging, Tracking, or the like means you are NOT keeping watch for hidden dangers. You're automatically surprised by lurking monsters or you blunder into the trap as appropriate. In my experience as long as other tasks are at least as beneficial as keeping watch for hidden dangers, you will see players choose these other options depending on their party composition and priorities. This further diminishes the "problem" of passive Perception being "way too important."

 

[iserith]

It's still not even a misnomer if you think of it from the player's perspective - it's a passive check because they aren't actively rolling dice.

I really think this is the way the term "Passive Check" should be seen. And it's definitely the way I consider it.

Right, because a check is not an action or a task. It's clearly referring to something a player or DM does (make a check), not what a character does. When it's treated as if referring to something the character does, things get weird and objections to the mechanic start getting posted on internet forums.

Oh, let me add that when I call for a sort of always-on-radar Peception check, I'm pretty sure it's because I feel like I haven't done a good enough job of describing the environment, so I fall back on the check as a sort if crutch to avoid accidentally playing gotcha when I unleash an ambush the players are not expecting and have been given no reason to expect.

Yes, that's exactly why I see DMs in other games I'm in do that. The ol' "Give me a Perception check..." followed by "You see this thing I forgot to describe in step 1..." I get annoyed at that if I haven't stated an action that might call for a check. I find it happens with Insight checks, too. The DM wants to say something, but feel like he or she must have a die roll in order to justify saying what he or she wants to say.

 

[Satyrn]

Yes, that's exactly why I see DMs in other games I'm in do that. The ol' "Give me a Perception check..." followed by "You see this thing I forgot to describe in step 1..." I get annoyed at that if I haven't stated an action that might call for a check. I find it happens with Insight checks, too. The DM wants to say something, but feel like he or she must have a die roll in order to justify saying what he or she wants to say.

I will try to remember to call it a saving throw if if I ever DM for you.

 

[SubDude]

In my campaigns, for example, moving at a Slow pace means your chance of running afoul of a wandering monster goes up.

Interesting. How does this work?

 

[iserith]

Interesting. How does this work?

A wandering monster check is a d20 roll. A monster is indicated at a particular DC which can vary or sometimes it's just 18+. The check is made at a set interval based on the adventure location.

When players are choosing the general tasks they are performing as they move about the adventure location, they also choose a pace. This impacts both the kinds of tasks they can do and the DCs for being successful in those tasks, if the outcome is uncertain. If they explore at a normal pace, the wandering monster check is rolled normally. If they go at a fast pace, the wandering monster check is made with disadvantage. If they go at a slow pace, the wandering monster check is made with advantage.

Knowing this going in, the players can arrange their tasks and marching order according to their party composition and priorities. If they want to try to avoid wandering monsters, they can move at a fast pace, though this obviates certain tasks and makes other tasks harder. If they want to fish for wanderers (like if they're close to leveling and want some XP), they can move at a slow pace. Slow pace tends to have the lowest DCs on tasks and you get to move stealthily if you want, but you pay for that by a greater chance of encountering a wandering monster per check interval.

 

[robus]

When players are choosing the general tasks they are performing as they move about the adventure location, they also choose a pace. This impacts both the kinds of tasks they can do and the DCs for being successful in those tasks, if the outcome is uncertain. If they explore at a normal pace, the wandering monster check is rolled normally. If they go at a fast pace, the wandering monster check is made with disadvantage. If they go at a slow pace, the wandering monster check is made with advantage.

Hmm I would think that moving at a fast pace increases their chances of running into wandering monsters? So I would roll with advantage for both slow and fast pace But I guess the counter is they’ve increased their chance of blundering into traps also...?

 

[iserith]

Hmm I would think that moving at a fast pace increases their chances of running into wandering monsters? So I would roll with advantage for both slow and fast pace But I guess the counter is they’ve increased their chance of blundering into traps also...?

Imagine that characters moving at slower paces are more static and the wandering monsters are drawn to them, happening upon them with greater frequency. Or imagine any other fictional circumstance where the mechanic makes sense. It's set up to give the players meaningful choices and trade-offs.

Moving at a fast pace means you have no chance of noticing traps via the general task - you better be paying attention when the DM describes the environment. It also means you have an increased DC to noticing hidden monsters which means you may be surprised if the monsters are being stealthy, for those characters Keeping Watch anyway.

If there's some other time pressure, pace also plays into that, but this depends on the scenario. In one of my adventures, for example, traveling to the dungeon at a particular pace means there are more or less monsters when the PCs get there and, the faster the pace, the greater the chance of exhaustion. All about the meaningful choices.