D&D 5E I don't use Passive Perception

[dpkress2]

As A DM, I don't use passive perception. I think it ruins the fun of things that are supposed to be a surprise. Traps or Hiding monsters comes to mind.

With passive perception what is the point of a trap? The player either automatically finds it OR I jack the spot DC and the player automatically doesn't find it. This is barring actively searching for traps of course.

Now players don't have to search for a trap to find it. If I know a trap is coming I will roll perception for the player in secret. If the make the DC, cool. If they don't, cool.

So far my players have not complained the least. But can anyone give me a reason why this is a bad idea or unfair?

I realize that I'M the DM and it's MY game so do works for ME and MY players is cool. So you don't need to tell me things of that nature. I'm looking for arguments in favor of Passive Perception or perhaps alternate ways to use it.

 

[Sunseeker]

I've never used passive perception to overcome active checks. Needing to spot a secret door or a hidden foe is an active check, you have to be specifically looking for signs of a concealed entry or an obscured foe. That requires a roll. I use passive perception more as 'general situational awareness' to notice things that are not actively hidden. Like, as you walk down the empty street, you notice people closing their windows as you walk by, or that each time you walk past a guy leaning against a post, a few moments later he steps out and starts following you. Or to notice that the tree across the street has far too many squirrels.

I believe that specific things require specific checks. Even if the DC is lower than their passive.

I do let my players roll for it though. Only once, since I have some people who when they hear "make a perception check" they freak out and keep rolling till they get a good roll, and I just ignore the rest. But that's a matter of preference.

 

[Krachek]

Passive perception is a tool.
If it bugs your game, put it aside just as you do.
When you feel that a player should have an information due to any passive skill, just give him.

 

[dpkress2]

I've never used passive perception to overcome active checks. Needing to spot a secret door or a hidden foe is an active check, you have to be specifically looking for signs of a concealed entry or an obscured foe. That requires a roll. I use passive perception more as 'general situational awareness' to notice things that are not actively hidden. Like, as you walk down the empty street, you notice people closing their windows as you walk by, or that each time you walk past a guy leaning against a post, a few moments later he steps out and starts following you. Or to notice that the tree across the street has far too many squirrels.

So you don't use it for traps? Even my secret roll method? If the players don't bother to check they just spring the trap?

 

[robus]

Alternatively you could roll stealth for the trap against the players PP... (using the trap builders stealth bonus - which should be fairly easy to guesstimate: basic +0, advanced +5, expert +10, evil genius +15 )

 

[FrogReaver]

As A DM, I don't use passive perception. I think it ruins the fun of things that are supposed to be a surprise. Traps or Hiding monsters comes to mind.

With passive perception what is the point of a trap? The player either automatically finds it OR I jack the spot DC and the player automatically doesn't find it. This is barring actively searching for traps of course.

Now players don't have to search for a trap to find it. If I know a trap is coming I will roll perception for the player in secret. If the make the DC, cool. If they don't, cool.

So far my players have not complained the least. But can anyone give me a reason why this is a bad idea or unfair?

I realize that I'M the DM and it's MY game so do works for ME and MY players is cool. So you don't need to tell me things of that nature. I'm looking for arguments in favor of Passive Perception or perhaps alternate ways to use it.

1st downside is that your act of rolling can key players into something being up which can affect how their characters act.
2nd downside is that you are doing a lot of extra rolling (once per character I'd assume).
3rd downside is that if you are rolling for each PC to spot the trap (without some other drawback) then you drastically increased the chance they will spot the trap.

I'd recommend changing all static DC's into dynamic ones that you calculate before the adventure. Then use passive perception against that number.

For example your trap may have a DC 15 to spot. Instead Set the DC as 10 + 1d10 (if that's to swingy then do 11+1d6). And just calculate that before the game.

Sneaky monsters are a bit more tricky. I'd recomned having done maybe 10 d20 prerolls and instead of rolling in game applying them 1 at a time when hidden monsters come up. The d20 preroll technique works for traps as well if you want that much swingyness.

 

[Sunseeker]

So you don't use it for traps? Even my secret roll method? If the players don't bother to check they just spring the trap?

Yep. Sucks to be them.

I'm a big fan of the idea that the player runs their character. Sometimes I'll have players say "I take extra time to check X amount of area for things!" *roll* That's what I want players to do. I want them to decide for themselves if they feel like they need to do these things. If the player does not feel like their character should be concerned enough to be checking for traps, and there's a trap well...I hope they learned something!

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Nebulous]

I had a player last week bragging about his low-level characters passive perception 20. The fact that he can even get that leads me to think the numbers are broken in this game sometimes. Regardless I will not let traps be automatically found or secret doors noticed the moment he passes them by. I will just keep in mind that he is highly perceptive.

 

[iserith]

Keeping watch for monsters and traps (which is when we may use passive Perception) is a trade-off against performing other tasks, unless you're a ranger in favored terrain. If the tasks have an upside approaching the benefit of keeping watch - a chance to avoid surprise and notice traps - then players will tend to mix up what they do. Some will then be automatically surprised if a lurking monster attacks or blunder into traps since they're focused on other tasks. Here is an example of this from one of my dungeon delves:





In addition, discovering a trap is only the first step in the challenge. There's also figuring out how it works and disarming it. Further, you should probably try telegraphing traps anyway by including some clues when describing the environment such that players who are paying attention have a chance to pick up on it and interact with the environment in a way that allows them to discover the trap without reference to passive checks.