I think TSR was right to publish so much material

[Fifth Element]

The only historicals I picked up were the Age of Heroes and the Vikings ones. I thought both were pretty good as a jumping off point for using that sort of campaign or campaign elements.

A friend of mine who is an absolute expert on ancient Rome picked up the Roman book and said that despite some obvious historical inaccuraces it wasn't a bad one.

I think this line of books gets a bad rep for some reason.

I agree. I loved those books dearly. I'm a serious fan of Earthy pastiche settings, and these books were enablers of that.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

The fact that two people obviously fairly heavily invested in a hobby never heard of an entire setting kinda brings us full circle on the original argument. From what I can see and the kudos it has garnered in the other thread, Jakandor is obviously a setting that could have been very successful if it had been more supported by TSR. Yet, they had so much going on (and I think they were in the midst of imploding when this setting came out in 1998) that big fans of the game never even heard of it.

That's stupid business right there. Still, as a fan I am happy I have yet another setting to yoink from

First things first: Jakandor: Island of War, the first of this mini series, is copyright 1997; not exactly the time in which TSR acted in a thoughtful, planned way.

Then, let me quote the back cover text:

A new, self-contained campaign arena conceived by Jeff Grubb, the ODYSSEY (TM) setting can be placed within any ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS world. New barbarian character kits, new forms of magic, and the opportunity for new styles of role-playing make Jakandor: Island of War a fresh experience for all players, novices and veterans alike.

It was never intended to be a campaign world in its own right, but to be slotted into any other world or be run as a one-off.

Maybe TSR saw the problem with their too many worlds and tried to garner the support of fans of different settings - though how an island setting should be interesting for Dark Sun folks eludes me - maybe they were frantically testing new approaches. But at least they prominently TradeMarked the name Odyssey, hoping to start a long line of successful supplements with it.

 

[Echohawk]

Other than not promoting it well-enough, I think TSR did something right with Jakandor - they started out with the intention of only doing three books, and stuck to the plan.

I seem to remember that TSR/WotC had originally planned to release four Jakandor books, but scrapped the last one. (I can't recall a source for this recollection though, sorry.) If that's right, then they didn't so much stick to the plan, as accidentally do something right

 

[LurkMonkey]

I've been playing the same length of time, so it's good to see another old-timer who started in '79; sometimes REAL old-timers act like we're dilettantes instead of allowing us the grognard status we're due

LOL. Quite true. Old enough to be grognards, not old enough to be pioneering grognards!

I heard of Jakandor and saw one or two of the books when they were released, but never saw all of them. Other than not promoting it well-enough, I think TSR did something right with Jakandor - they started out with the intention of only doing three books, and stuck to the plan. I wish they'd done that with more of their settings; I'd much rather be left wanting more than to get sick of something due to how much of it I got.

Actually, when I was researching the setting after I heard about it, the wiki page on it says there was a planned fourth book that never got published (The upcoming release of 3e might have squashed it) LINK.

I think the problem is that TSR tried to be everything for everybody. The problem is that splitting an already small hobby into competing sub-genres just didn't work. Believe me, I wish it did. By trying to keep everything 'in house' they ended up spreading themselves too thin.

 

[LurkMonkey]

First things first: Jakandor: Island of War, the first of this mini series, is copyright 1997; not exactly the time in which TSR acted in a thoughtful, planned way.

Yep. Kinda what we are discussing Sorry to get the date wrong, I don't actually have the books (yet).

Then, let me quote the back cover text:

A new, self-contained campaign arena conceived by Jeff Grubb, the ODYSSEY (TM) setting can be placed within any ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS world. New barbarian character kits, new forms of magic, and the opportunity for new styles of role-playing make Jakandor: Island of War a fresh experience for all players, novices and veterans alike.

It was never intended to be a campaign world in its own right, but to be slotted into any other world or be run as a one-off.

Maybe TSR saw the problem with their too many worlds and tried to garner the support of fans of different settings - though how an island setting should be interesting for Dark Sun folks eludes me - maybe they were frantically testing new approaches. But at least they prominently TradeMarked the name Odyssey, hoping to start a long line of successful supplements with it.

Fair enough. But the point I was trying to make, whether Jakandor was a setting, a one-off, a new way to sell RPG material, or whatever, was that I never heard of it until last week. And apparently, neither did Hussar above until I metioned it. Whatever Jakandor was, its marketing was strictly fail.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I think the problem is that TSR tried to be everything for everybody. The problem is that splitting an already small hobby into competing sub-genres just didn't work.

The thing about this is that those competing games and settings were appealing to people, otherwise they would not be competing, and wouldn't be fondly recalled today. I don't know if TSR's demise was brought about by too many settings, but rather by way too many books for those settings. Plus, it wasn't that it was splitting the hobby, but rather it was splitting TSR's resources. This seemed to be exacerbated by TSR throwing good money after bad by continuing to pour out books for settings that should have just been one or two books or a boxed set, or at least a much shorter line of products. Gamers who might have been fully satisfied with the first year or so of releases for Ravenloft, for example, ended up seeing a huge number and variety of books that, by the end, weren't appealing to anyone.

I asked this elsewhere, but as I recall, the triggering event for TSR's collapse, the straw that broke the camel's back, was the return of a mountain of books from the fiction side of things. I know that TSR produced way too many game books, but I wonder how much the fiction had to do with its demise? That is, how long would TSR have survived if they didn't have the fiction lines, or if the fiction lines had been much smaller?

 

[Marius Delphus]

IMO, not much longer than they did. TSR was leveraged up the yin-yang (Ryan Dancey spoke of not being sure WOTC could rescue the D&D IP from all the various creditors that had a stake in it), and the house of cards didn't have long to stand. There seems to have been an air of "waiting for the next big hit, and everything would be all right again." Witness Spellfire (attempt to cash in on CCGs) and Dragon Dice (attempt to create a brand new collectible category). TSR seems (to me) to have been a sinking ship even without the book trade returns.

 

[AllisterH]

I seem to remember that TSR/WotC had originally planned to release four Jakandor books, but scrapped the last one. (I can't recall a source for this recollection though, sorry.) If that's right, then they didn't so much stick to the plan, as accidentally do something right

Are you sure you're not thinking about Al-Qadim?

I'm 100% positive that I read in DRAGON from TSR that Al-Qadim had a two year lifespan that they extended to 3 because of fan demand....

re: ODYSSEY line

I *REMEMBER* that hazily...wasn't that tied into Gates of Firestorm Peak module (ironically one of the few modules that could be considered a 2e classic since it seems like EVERYONE has played it)?

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Fair enough. But the point I was trying to make, whether Jakandor was a setting, a one-off, a new way to sell RPG material, or whatever, was that I never heard of it until last week. And apparently, neither did Hussar above until I metioned it. Whatever Jakandor was, its marketing was strictly fail.

Fair enough, but I know that I was really looking forward to Jakandor, even pre-ordering the first volume from a mail-order shop. Please don't ask me why. That I don't recall...

 

[Jan van Leyden]

re: ODYSSEY line

I *REMEMBER* that hazily...wasn't that tied into Gates of Firestorm Peak module (ironically one of the few modules that could be considered a 2e classic since it seems like EVERYONE has played it)?

As far as I recall (don't have GoFP handy right now) *this* was tied to the Skills & Powers line, what with the floorplans and monster chits. Did it also have a Odyssey tag line?