D&D 5E I think WotC has it backwards (re: story arcs)

[Parmandur]

Not the best business plan.

Depends; a D&D movie can make more money than the entire RPG industry does in a decade. Increasing sheer market share of play means more groups to buy an AP, or t-shirts, etc.

 

[Nellisir]

But if you aren't playing the game right now... you have no momentum. You aren't interested. You aren't in 'Limbo'... you aren't playing the game. Which of course is fine. You don't want to play the game because it doesn't fit your needs. No big deal. But you know what WotC's current policies are-- they've been quite up-front about it. So if you still keep "hanging around" waiting for WotC to catch up to what your expectations for the game are... that's on you. You're putting yourself into 'Limbo' because even though the game isn't what you want it to be (since apparently it looks like you need to have 'X' amount of stuff available before you can consider it a true game you are willing to play)... you also aren't just stopping and going elsewhere.

You can try and blame WotC for that all you want... but it isn't their problem. It's yours. You're making yourself irritated because you won't let go. You seem to just think that if you hang around long enough, WotC will come around. Which... truth be told... is in fact true. At some point, WotC WILL have released enough 5E product to reach this 'X' you have in your head of what is required to warrant playing the game.

The question just comes down to "Do I leave 5E now and come back in five years when I can buy everything I want to play the type of D&D game I want... or do I just make myself miserable by hanging around staring at this pot waiting for it to eventually boil?"

You can answer the question whichever way you want... but just don't expect sympathy from WotC or some of the rest of us if we don't agree with your answer.

I realize you've got this whole narrative thread worked out that I'm "irritated" and "not interested" and "miserable" and etc etc, and it's kind of interesting in an alternative universe sort of way.

I ran a 5e campaign. It fell apart due to scheduling issues, and seems unlikely to restart anytime soon. The other groups I've been in contact with have similar conflicts.
I already statted up my homebrew campaign races in 5e and written a number of monsters, so I'm perfectly capable of doing it. I also have other demands on my time that I didn't have twenty years ago.
I'm not irritated at WotC. I disagree with their course post-DMG, but I'm not irritated. Bored would be more accurate. Disappointed. The MM was SO GOOD.
I'm "hanging around" because a) I think WotC is actually going to offer more than they've said (it's interesting how invested some people are in making the minimum out of every WotC tweet); b) waiting on license info; c) old habits die hard.

 

[Kramodlog]

Depends; a D&D movie can make more money than the entire RPG industry does in a decade. Increasing sheer market share of play means more groups to buy an AP, or t-shirts, etc.

Heh. First you say it isn't about selling books put playing the game. Now it is about movies cause movies will help sell books? Yeah, you're not making sense.

And besides, Marvel's superhero movies didn't put that Marvel RPG on top of ICv2's charts. It isn't even on the charts. The idea that a D&D movie will mean the RPG will result in an automatic boom in revenues remains to be seen.

 

[Nellisir]

Depends; a D&D movie can make more money than the entire RPG industry does in a decade. Increasing sheer market share of play means more groups to buy an AP, or t-shirts, etc.

Right. The needs of the movie market and the wants of the existing market don't always align, though. The Marvel MCU have very much become the tail that wags the dog, or maybe the comics have become the tail. In either case, it's not a great time to be a fan of the existing X-Men comics. Latest reports are that Marvel is literally blasting them into space, to another planet. This is after two or three years of some of the worst storylines ever. By every indication I can find, Marvel has intentionally tanked what was once its top property.

I'm not saying WotC will tank D&D. I'm saying that if D&D is successful in other venues, the RPG aspect will likely be changed to accommodate, whether the old guard will or nay. So, be careful what you wish for.

 

[Parmandur]

Heh. First you say it isn't about selling books put playing the game. Now it is about movies cause movies will help sell books? Yeah, you're not making sense.



And besides, Marvel's superhero movies didn't put that Marvel RPG on top of ICv2's charts. It isn't even on the charts. The idea that a D&D movie will mean the RPG will result in an automatic boom in revenues remains to be seen.

Well, even if a movie increased RPG sales ten fold, they would still make more from the movie. RPG is not the revenue stream of the future for the brand; they have been clear about that. AP might be better than splat, though. I've been playing for over ten years, and I have already bought more 5E AP than splats for any edition, and that's just three! Anecdotal, yes, but interesting...

 

[Parmandur]

Right. The needs of the movie market and the wants of the existing market don't always align, though. The Marvel MCU have very much become the tail that wags the dog, or maybe the comics have become the tail. In either case, it's not a great time to be a fan of the existing X-Men comics. Latest reports are that Marvel is literally blasting them into space, to another planet. This is after two or three years of some of the worst storylines ever. By every indication I can find, Marvel has intentionally tanked what was once its top property.



I'm not saying WotC will tank D&D. I'm saying that if D&D is successful in other venues, the RPG aspect will likely be changed to accommodate, whether the old guard will or nay. So, be careful what you wish for.

X-Men haven't been worth jack since '91, anyhow. I like what Marvel us doing these days, with comics and with movies. Anything remotely like that for D&D is precisely what I want.

 

[Greg K]

X-Men haven't been worth jack since '91.

I'd argue a few years before that

 

[Jeff Albertson]

I basically only bought The Rise of Tiamat and Princes of Do-Dah for some stats and to support 5th Ed.

 

[DEFCON 1]

First of all, your statement presumes that one hasn't read existing books, and that all books are equally interesting. Second, you mistake "want" for "need". I don't "need" to read them. I want to. RPGs are a luxury product. Third, you made my point. "Readers" made up a really, really large part of the market. We can go buy something else. That's how WotC loses customers.

But whether they lose customers is not your concern. It's theirs. If they are happy with losing a few customers... that's their choice.

I realize you've got this whole narrative thread worked out that I'm "irritated" and "not interested" and "miserable" and etc etc, and it's kind of interesting in an alternative universe sort of way.

I ran a 5e campaign. It fell apart due to scheduling issues, and seems unlikely to restart anytime soon. The other groups I've been in contact with have similar conflicts.
I already statted up my homebrew campaign races in 5e and written a number of monsters, so I'm perfectly capable of doing it. I also have other demands on my time that I didn't have twenty years ago.
I'm not irritated at WotC. I disagree with their course post-DMG, but I'm not irritated. Bored would be more accurate. Disappointed. The MM was SO GOOD.
I'm "hanging around" because a) I think WotC is actually going to offer more than they've said (it's interesting how invested some people are in making the minimum out of every WotC tweet); b) waiting on license info; c) old habits die hard.

You're the one who responded to my first post saying you're liable to stop hanging around unless you get what you're looking for-- something "interesting"-- from WotC. But now above you are claiming that you're going to hang around because of points A, B, & C... none of which have to do with WotC releasing anything "interesting". So which is it? If you're going to hang around regardless because you think unannounced stuff is coming, you're waiting on licensing info, and old habits die hard... then my original point still stands.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Ah, the strawman, always there to help.

Do you even know what a "straw man argument" is? Your specific comment was "You don't need to play the game to buy its books." What exactly are people buying these books for if they aren't playing the game *OR* reading them? Are you suggesting people are buying them to use as doorstops or paperweights? I come on... if you're going to make a comment, at least own it.

My wild guess is that WotC wants to get our money. I'm guessing that the current edition sells more than the past ones too. I'm also guessing that if we give our money to Paizo, WotC doesn't get our money.

Which has nothing to do with my point. I wasn't talking about WotC... I was asking why the people who want to buy RPG books for reasons other than playing the game (which to you apparently means for something *other* than reading, but okay...) why do those people have to buy 5E books? If they aren't playing the game, the rules don't matter. If the rules don't matter, the system doesn't matter. If the system doesn't matter... then when any more 5E books get released also doesn't matter.

So the issue isn't a straw man... the issue is you don't seem to understand what it was you were actually trying to say when you said "You do not need to play the game to buy its books."