I Want to do Everthing - The Half Elf Bard

[legiondevil]

(Disclaimer: I'm at work currently, this will all be theory until I get back to my books.)

With my copy of the Player's Handbook 2 in shipment, and my subscription to the D&D Insider renewed, I now have a serious desire to play a Bard. But, not just any Bard. A true dabbler, testing the waters of every role and dipping his toes in just about everything he can.

To do this, though, I really have to plan around 1 ability score. Charisma. While it is a primary score for a striker (Sorcerer), leader (the Bard, naturally), and Defender (Paladin); the Controller gets left behind (for now). However since they can both use Wands, with a mediocre Intelligence, I think Wizard could work. This also opens up Swordmage as an option in the Defender field.

The sticking point for me is, though, which power to gain as an At Will through the Half Elf Paragon Feat at 11th level? I'm leaning toward Eyebite, but others are fairly intriguing. Advice?

 

[Rechan]

To do this, though, I really have to plan around 1 ability score. Charisma. While it is a primary score for a striker (Sorcerer), leader (the Bard, naturally), and Defender (Paladin); the Controller gets left behind (for now).

You forget Warlock, too.

If you were to up your Int, then I think Commander's Strike is actually a very attractive option. It's within your role, granted, but there's something satisfying about facilitating someone else to be awesome.

Do not forget that there are other multi-classing options. Spellscarred (FR), the multi-class weapon/style feats (although I don't think any emphasize charisma). I'm sure some will facilitate spellcasters, down the road.

The nice thing about Swordmages and Bards is that, supposedly, the songblade functions as an implement and a weapon for the Bard; the sword functions as an implement and weapon for the Swordmage, so you have your implement right there. Additionally, SM's powers are fairly controller like; blasts, bursts, etc. (And a Sorcerer's blast powers are decently controllerish).

But be careful. The melee "I use a weapon" bard build facilitates Constitution as a secondary. The ranged "I use an implement" facilitates Int. It would be very difficult to straddle Con and Int so you can do both melee, and facilitate casting Wizard spells.

 

[legiondevil]

You forget Warlock, too.

If you were to up your Int, then I think Commander's Strike is actually a very attractive option. It's within your role, granted, but there's something satisfying about facilitating someone else to be awesome.

Warlock is actually at the top of my list, with its debuffs and ability to cast from Charisma while using a wand (again, keeping with the singular implement across casting classes). And Eyebite as an at-will is pretty nice.

I had completely forgotten about Commander's Strike. It's another good one to add to the list of possibilities, and lends very well to the Intelligence secondary.

Though when I was mentioning melee attacks, I was thinking more along the lines of ones that did not use Strength as an attack stat (the two paladin powers, for example). They could be useful in a fallback situation where removing the character from melee combat would be impossible or highly difficult.

So far...

Paladin : Enfeebling Strike (Can the Bard move marks so that they originate from himself, or only his allies?)
Sorcerer: Dragonfrost
Swordmage : Greenflame Blade / Lightning Lure ?
Warlock : Eyebite
Warlord: Commanders Strike
Wizard : Scorching Burst

 

[Rechan]

Though when I was mentioning melee attacks, I was thinking more along the lines of ones that did not use Strength as an attack stat

Sure, I get that. Just saying that the Bard has two builds. One, the int secondary one, is ranged. The second, the con secondary, is melee; the Bard uses Charisma as his main stat to attack, but Con functions as a secondary effect (like the Paladin uses Charisma to make melee attacks, and his Wisdom has secondary effects).

So, you could have you rmelee attacks with one of the Bard at-wills.

(Had you wanted str based ones, there's no greater at-will than Righteous Brand. )

As far as Bard at-wills are concerned, Misdirected Mark and Vicious Mockery are very similar. Both give the target a -2; one simply uses the marking mechanic (so the target takes the -2 if they don't attack the placed mark). The only real difference is one attacks Will, the other Ref, and one does a d6 of damage, versus a d8. So, you could easily get away with picking one ranged at will, and one melee at-will, of the Bard.

The SM and Melee is only really a good, viable option if you go for the Songblade. Otherwise, the universal implement of wands works for wizards and warlocks (since Sorcerers use daggers and staff as implements).

The one problem with picking Eyebite as your Dilettante power, is that if you multi-class into Warlock, then you're going to be a little redundant. However, the DarkPact Warlock's at-will is a nice opening salvo.

 

[Remathilis]

The Dark Pact for Warlock is Cha-based also, and Spiteful Glamour is a good encounter-worthy power (cha vs. will, 1d12+cha vs a fresh opponent or 1d8+cha to a foe whose taken damage).

If your int is high, consider also the artificer preview powers: Aggravating Force, Magic Weapon and Thundering Armor. All are Int attacks, are leaderly (granting boons to allies) and can be used with Wands. Sadly, we have a while till the full artificer with multi-class feat arrives, but if your DM is ok with house rules, it shouldn't be too hard to create a temp MC feat for artificers (Student of the Forge: Int 13, Can use Healing Infusion 1/encounter) until the Eberron guide comes out.

 

[legiondevil]

As far as Bard at-wills are concerned, Misdirected Mark and Vicious Mockery are very similar. Both give the target a -2; one simply uses the marking mechanic (so the target takes the -2 if they don't attack the placed mark). The only real difference is one attacks Will, the other Ref, and one does a d6 of damage, versus a d8. So, you could easily get away with picking one ranged at will, and one melee at-will, of the Bard.

I think the big difference lies in the Party's Defender. Will the Swordmage/Fighter/Paladin/Warden benefit more from the target being marked, or would it be better to lay down a flat penalty? Misdirected Mark would be stellar with all but the Fighter, who would have to be in melee range with the target to benefit more than the -2.

 

[legiondevil]

The Dark Pact for Warlock is Cha-based also, and Spiteful Glamour is a good encounter-worthy power (cha vs. will, 1d12+cha vs a fresh opponent or 1d8+cha to a foe whose taken damage).

I can't believe I forgot Spiteful Glamour.

Sadly a no on the Articifer homebrew multiclass power, at least for now. Though the thought of picking up Warlord, Cleric, and Artificer multiclass feats for 3 more heals per day is interesting...but those feats could be better served somewhere else.

 

[ppaladin123]

I think the big difference lies in the Party's Defender. Will the Swordmage/Fighter/Paladin/Warden benefit more from the target being marked, or would it be better to lay down a flat penalty? Misdirected Mark would be stellar with all but the Fighter, who would have to be in melee range with the target to benefit more than the -2.

The problem is that paladin and swordmage marks are "special," and thus will not activate as a result of the misdirected mark power. Actually the warden and the fighter get the most out of the power because their abilities trigger whenever someone "marked by you" fulfills the respective requirements. The paladin and swordmage abilities specifically state that the opponent must be "marked by (this power)."

 

[legiondevil]

The problem is that paladin and swordmage marks are "special," and thus will not activate as a result of the misdirected mark power. Actually the warden and the fighter get the most out of the power because their abilities trigger whenever someone "marked by you" fulfills the respective requirements. The paladin and swordmage abilities specifically state that the opponent must be "marked by (this power)."

Not too sure on that. Taken from the Compendium...

Misdirected Mark: Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage, and the target is marked by an ally within 5 squares of you until the end of your next turn.

Effect Line of Divine Challenge: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target, or if you fail to engage the target (see below). A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place.

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target before the start of your next turn.

It doesn't state that had to be marked by the power, but only they be marked.

 

[Rechan]

That has been debated a few times on the boards, and the usual consensus that being Marked is a Condition. The only Defender whose class features interact with the Marked Condition is the Fighter (and subsequently the Warden). Divine Challenge/Aegis are their own mechanics. They behave LIKE a mark (same -2, and they supercede any other marks), but they are their own class feature.

If you disagree with that, I'd suggest forking that over into the rules forum, but that's just the consensus.