Henadic Theologian
Legend
To see see how they will.change it now the source spell lisrs are gone and class spell lists are back.
D&D (2024) I wish we'd gotten to see the Bard in UA one more time.
The Myopic Sniper
Hero
I think the fact that they didn't do further testing on the class means that they are going to lean in heavily on the traditional class identity and pick a list heavy on enchantments, illusions, buffs and a smattering of healing with a few other spells that have flavor elements like "Song" and "Word" spells that match up with bard lore even if the effects of the spells are un-Bard like. Maybe at higher levels, Bards will simply gain access to everything. I don't know how much any of the playtest classes will directly resemble any ultimately published content. My impression is that they were mainly there for testing if individual elements passed the smell test and they are using that info to guide the real class rewrites. Plus they would probably prefer that people buy new PHBs rather than having all that information out in the public playtest a year in advance.
humble minion
Legend
So, as someone who's largely missed the playtests, what DOES the UA bard look like?
I've found it one of the most confused classes in 5e - it's a performer that doesn't need to perform, and turning it into a full spellcaster has hamstrung the customisability of it to fit other archetypes and TRIPLED down on the 'Cha-based arcane caster' thing with the sorcerer and warlock, so I was hoping (probably in vain) for a significant rework. Sounds like we're not getting one though?
I've found it one of the most confused classes in 5e - it's a performer that doesn't need to perform, and turning it into a full spellcaster has hamstrung the customisability of it to fit other archetypes and TRIPLED down on the 'Cha-based arcane caster' thing with the sorcerer and warlock, so I was hoping (probably in vain) for a significant rework. Sounds like we're not getting one though?
marimbaguy715
Explorer
We saw 2 versions of the Bard, and both of them were during the period where they were still testing the idea of having 3 general spell lists - Arcane/Primal/Divine. The first version had them using the Arcane list but only certain schools of magic, and moved some features around to different levels in a way that wasn't well recieved. The second one let them choose which spell list they wanted to use (so you could have a Divine or Primal bard, which people found interesting), reverted the level changes, and made some generally well received tweaks to subclasses along with introducing the College of Dance.
Given that the Arcane/Primal/Divine spells lists are gone, IMO it's likely the 2024 Bard will be the 2014 Bard with:
- Minor adjustments to spell list
- A better Countercharm (it's now a reaction to give one creature a reroll with advantage)
- Tweaked subclasses
- A new capstone (it essentially lets you twin PW:K or PW:H)
That's probably not what you wanted, but the Bard was generally a well liked class from what I can tell, and given that WotC didn't feel the need to make sweeping changes to it.
humble minion
Legend
Yeah, that's kinda what I expected. Disappointing, but realistically they were never going to rewrite the whole thing from scratch like I wanted to see.
At least one subclass based on actual performing is a nice and very overdue change though. Capstone abilities are relevant in approximately 0.01% of real-life games so I don't care about them. I really didn't like the general spell lists thing, so i don't mind that that has gone. Frankly with all the healing and buffing spells on the bard list you can play a divine bard straight out of the 5e box, though i grant that a nature-based one would be harder.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I agree. The UA 5 bard was well-liked at least in part because of being able to choose from the Arcane, Divine, or Primal spell lists, which doesn't really translate to individual class spell lists, so the thing that made the UA5 bard popular is no longer really relevant. Unless the 2024 bard can choose to use the wizard, druid, or cleric spell list which would be... pretty weird...
UngeheuerLich
Legend
For what it is worth:
Ad&d 1e bards used the druid spell list (because they were multiclass druids)
Ad&d 2e bards used the wizard spell list.
Actually if I was rewriting it I'd give the bard enchantment, illusion, transmutation and divination from the wizard and the druid list.
That would be a great list and quite similar to the 2014 bard's list.
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Yaarel
He Mage
The Bard is a strictly magical concept. Merlin is actually a Bard, not "Wizard". The mythologically accurate Bard, the Bard of Celtic heritage, is clearly a fullcaster.
For a nonmagical performer, the Performance skill itself should do useful things. The instrumenting or singing, should grant a Toolset Advantage adding to Persuasion checks, where the art and perhaps celebrity promotes a Friendly response from old and new fans.
For the Old School low-magic Bard, make a Rogue subclass. Something like Trickster dabbling in Wizard, but a Rogue dabbling in Bard. Mainly pick up the music features. But also gain a few spells, maybe just the Bard spells of the Enchantment and Abjuration (including Healing) schools. Call the subclass Troubadour.
For a nonmagical performer, the Performance skill itself should do useful things. The instrumenting or singing, should grant a Toolset Advantage adding to Persuasion checks, where the art and perhaps celebrity promotes a Friendly response from old and new fans.
For the Old School low-magic Bard, make a Rogue subclass. Something like Trickster dabbling in Wizard, but a Rogue dabbling in Bard. Mainly pick up the music features. But also gain a few spells, maybe just the Bard spells of the Enchantment and Abjuration (including Healing) schools. Call the subclass Troubadour.
Yaarel
He Mage
What if the 2024 Bard can pick spells from any spell list?
The concept of a class-specific spell is problematic. It tends to be overpowered compared to other spells of the same level, thus tends to screw up the ability to discern how powerful a spell of each level should be. It will, inevitably, cause balance problems in the long run. Instead of calling it a "spell", make it a class feature that can spend spell slots. Then the overpower can be part of the class design space, rather than the spell design space.
That said.
The Bard might be able to pick up any spell from any list, except for class specific spells.
The concept of a class-specific spell is problematic. It tends to be overpowered compared to other spells of the same level, thus tends to screw up the ability to discern how powerful a spell of each level should be. It will, inevitably, cause balance problems in the long run. Instead of calling it a "spell", make it a class feature that can spend spell slots. Then the overpower can be part of the class design space, rather than the spell design space.
That said.
The Bard might be able to pick up any spell from any list, except for class specific spells.
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