Ideas for a "Shapechanger" Base Class

[Dannyalcatraz]

I know I'm late to the thread, but my instinct on this was that because of the nature of their abilities, they should have big HD (d10 or d12) and a medium BAB (like the Cleric or Druid).

To me, their control over their body is such that that even at rest, they should be tougher and more resilient than the average PC, and meshes well with the good Fort save.

And the fact that they seem to have so many ways to boost their offensive capabilities via their shapechanging means they don't really need that full BAB. In fact, full BAB might make them a tad über. (I could be wrong- only a true playtest would tell for sure.)

I may have missed it, but some form of regen or self-healing would seem to be appropriate to a class like this, much like the Psionic power Body Adjustment.
Body Adjustment :: d20srd.org

It also seems a tiny bit odd to me that a PC who is spending his time mimicking the forms of other creatures would start off as being proficient with shields of any kind.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Herzog]

mmm.

why give the shapechanger class armor and weapon proficiencies when most of the time they can't/won't use them?

It gets natural armor, which should provide enough protection.
I assume it will be considered proficient with any weapons it 'shapes'.

No need to give it more than it needs.


You most recent update (with the full class table) is way too powerfull.

Three 'good' saving throw progressions AND full BaB progression AND d8 HD AND 6+Int skillpoints? What were you thinking?

 

[Arkhandus]

RE: The Skinchanger......

BROKEN!!!!!

Just so ya know, this post is meant as constructive criticism (as most of it is analysis/reasoning). I just haven't determined what exactly you should drop from the class to fix it. See the last line of this post for my summary of what needs to go or be compensated for at least, and note the questions just above that line. (I was pretty busy and distracted back around December, so I never got around to commenting earlier on this while it was still new.)

Firstly: since you gave them full BAB and made them fairly melee-oriented, the best comparison is to a barbarian. You gave them two degrees weaker HD, but one degree higher skill points, which puts them overall 1-5 feats behind a barbarian right there......which is entrely eclipsed by their high Reflex and Will saves, and then some.

Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior) is too strong for a single feat IMO, duplicating most of a +2 Constitution's benefits (with Great Fortitude easily making up the difference), so I don't consider an average of 1 more hp/level to be worth only 1 feat, more like 4 or 5 (as in 4 or 5 copies of a fixed/houseruled Toughness feat; I typically houserule it to grant 4 or 5 hp per copy, which is much more fair; and I would lean towards 5/copy). So the 6 extra base Reflex (equal to 3 Lightning Reflexes feats, if it were possible to take that feat more than once) makes up for most of the lost HP after considering the greater SP and class skills (i.e. the greater versatility and utility of the class), especially since Reflex is what's used to avoid most non-physical damage.

The 6 extra Will over a barbarian makes up the difference, and makes up for the lack of medium armor proficiency and the lack of Fast Movement (or at least close enough). The class has no weaknesses except a slight, slight susceptibility to prolonged physical beatings (and their other class features pretty well mitigate THAT as an option for victory against a skinchanger).

Scent and Morphic Senses pretty much balance out the lack of barbarian Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge (they help the skinchanger detect enemies easily before they even get close, and can even pinpoint invisible foes, plus Scent is useable for tracking).

Morphic Sight makes up for whatever bit of Fast Movement's utility they lack, and a bit of the utility of Rage outside of combat.

Shapechanger makes up for the barbarian Damage Reduction, and is really just slightly more easily bypassed (while a few PCs and NPCs might carry silver weapons, they're not that common, and how are they even going to know that they need silver to properly hurt the skinchanger? Sure, they might make a sufficient Knowledge check to identify the skinchanger's vulnerability to silver, after observing the character's shapeshifting, but it's not likely to be their best weapon that's silvered). That's made up for by the other benefits of the Shapechanger class feature, which also compensates for Trap Sense. Plus they get their DR much sooner than a barbarian would accumulate so much DR.

Morphic Freedom is just plain broken by itself. Constant immunity to crits, stunning, and anything that would catch them or impede their movement, plus double the earlier DR value? There are reasons that Freedom of Movement is a mid-level spell with a modest duration and only available to certain classes, and why a magic Ring of Freedom of Movement is kinda expensive. And why Stoneskin is a mid-level spell with a costly component that is only available to certain classes. And why common PC races aren't elementals, constructs, plants, or undead, and why even Warforged are given only partial crit/status-effect immunity. A high-level warblade, even, would have to stay firmly planted on the ground to use the stance for crit immunity, and would only be able to use another stance if they were 20th-level (plus they would need to spend a feat if they wanted to have both that stance and the DR 5/- stance). Morphic Freedom basically removes the only slight gaps in the class' excellent defenses (and some of those gaps are already lessened by the Shapechanger class feature).

I'm not even gonna count Morphic Freedom in my analysis, because it's better than all the rest of the barbarian's remaining class features for comparison.

Finally getting to the main class features........ Morphic Aspect is useable at will with no limits, so the abilities dependant on it are thus also unlimited in use. The Survival bonus and at-will use of Morphic Aspect makes up for the small number of Rages per day that a barbarian gets, as well as compensating for the barbarian's Tireless Rage and then some. Morphic Armor gradually makes up for the AC bonuses that would otherwise be gained from an Amulet of Natural Armor and a Ring of Protection (assuming that Morphic Aspect will prevent the character from having someone put those items on him or her after changing form; otherwise, it's an even more powerful class feature), so it's fairly useful. That's worth at least the Constitution and morale bonuses of a barbarian's Rages each day, reducing how often he'll be hurt. Probably also makes up for Indomitable Will, given how limited those three Raging benefits are in application.

Natural Arsenal's enhancement bonus is worth the base Rage's bonus to Strength and Greater Rage's bonus to Strength, factoring in the utility and the typical barbarian's two-handed power-attacking strength bonuses to damage. The scaling base damage or number of attacks makes up for the lack of iterative weapon attacks to some degree, but is overall somewhat weaker. Morphic Combat is sure to compensate for that.

That leaves Mighty Rage's Strength bonus, martial weapon proficiencies, plus the Rage penalties and barbarian Illiteracy. Morphic Aspect's own limitations compensate for these (assuming it limits magic item use as severely as it seems), maybe even going a bit further than that. However, the actual benefits for each Morphic Aspect (especially since they get some kind of extra benefit at every other level from it, according to the table) are sure to more than make up for that. The sample Morphic Aspect forms you gave afterward certainly make up for it and then some, and they don't even cover whatever Morphic Aspect benefits they're supposed to gain beyond 1st-level (or do they just learn one Morphic Aspect form at each of those 10 levels? Your description doens't say anything about it).

Also, it's not clear from the description if the character can don magic items, armor, and such AFTER changing forms (it's not clear if those just meld into the new form as well), in order to receive the full benefits of those magic items regardless. In that case the class is even more overpwoered. Plus, regardless, it has a lot of inherant versatility in its class features and whatnot, so that's extra value compared to the hit-things-and-run-around-in-the-woods-and-grunt-at-people barbarian.

Leaving you with Morphic Freedom and most benefits of Morphic Aspects as overkill.

 

[Dagredhel]

What were you thinking?

BROKEN!!!!!

Hmmm... I think I'm sensing a trend...

I think I was being overly ambitious, trying to cover too many concepts with a single class.

As soon as I get a chance, I'll reply in more depth and give it another try.

Thank you, Dannyalcatraz, Herzog, and Arkhandus. I was pleased to see your replies, which have renewed my interest in tinkering with this idea again.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think its an idea worth doing! Shapechangers of all kinds- the cursed, the innate abilities, the arcane/divine secrets revealed- feature in a lot of mythologies and legends, and in many different...*ahem*...forms.

The Lycanthropes and Doppelgangers/Shifters/Changelings fill the first 2 types, and spellcasters like Mages & Druids figure in to the third.

However, the shapechanging specialist is a rarity in RPGs...and is most common in modern comic books, like DC's Changeling or Marvel's Snowbird. (They are all over the comics, but few of them focus on animal/natural forms- see Metamorpho, Plastic Man, The Metal Men, Sandman (Marvel) and so many others.)

One thing to consider- you might want to have this class have 2 possible advancement paths: the "master of many forms" and the "form specialist." The former adds shape after shape to his repertoire, the latter finds 1-3 forms and perfects them.

 

[Dagredhel]

Here is what I'm thinking so far...

I'll concentrate on a class which assumes animal forms, perhaps with vermininous, hybrid, or swarm forms as options later on. Larger, smaller, aerial and aquatic forms or abilities will fill in the middle levels.

"Skinchanger" still works as a name. ("Wildshaper" would be good, except for the implication thaty the wildshape class feature is involved. Similarly, anything with "shifter" in it sounds too much like the Eberron race.)

As suggested, change hit die to d12. Ranged combat options will be almost nonexistent. This will be a frontline scrapper.

Change class skills to 4 + Int Modifier and shorten class skill list. Class abilities should supplement this where appropriate. (The last time around, I wasn't planning on any class abilities involving skills, so I beefed up the class skill selection and skill points instead. Seems like a lazy decision in retrospect.)

Cleric/Rogue BAB should be fine, with potential bonuses to Strength and perhaps a scaling enhancement bonus to natural weapon attacks granted by the class.

Fort save should be good. Maybe Reflex too. Undecided. A bonus or ability related to Will saves is still a possibility, representing an alien (feral) mindset. Maybe immunity to spells which only affect humanoids? Dunno.

Limit proficiencies to simple weapons and light armor?

In hindsight, I'm thinking the simplest (but still somewhat flexible approach) would be to have most or all of the powers granted by the class come in the form of at-will abilities, similar to a Warlock's Invocations.

The lowest level powers would provide skill bonuses or things like lowlight vision or resistance to temperature extremes. The next tier would represent basic forms, with one selection available to a 1st level character. Two higher tiers would represent higher level options. What to call the 'levels'? Or the 'powers' themselves?

I'm open to suggestions!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'll concentrate on a class which assumes animal forms, perhaps with vermininous, hybrid, or swarm forms as options later on. Larger, smaller, aerial and aquatic forms or abilities will fill in the middle levels.

Good idea, but what about making each of those a separate sub-specialty? IOW, someone who masters regular animal forms, someone who masters swarms, etc. Its a little more work, but the benefits could be worth it.

I'm not clear as to what you mean by "hybrid"- is that hybrid (aka magical) beasts? Or is that a Skinchanger who can't do a complete change, but only mixes human form with animal simultaneously- a quasi-lycanthrope?

"Skinchanger" still works as a name.

Agreed, for the very things you mentioned.

As suggested, change hit die to d12. Ranged combat options will be almost nonexistent. This will be a frontline scrapper.

Good.

Change class skills to 4 + Int Modifier and shorten class skill list. Class abilities should supplement this where appropriate.

Looks good- probably a similar list to the "nature-boy" classes would be in order. Or, if you have the time, check out what kind of skill sets you find in the fuzzy monsters from the various MMs.

Cleric/Rogue BAB should be fine, with potential bonuses to Strength and perhaps a scaling enhancement bonus to natural weapon attacks granted by the class.

Agreed.

Fort save should be good. Maybe Reflex too.

I think that both of those saves should be good. Leave the Will save as the weak point...their animal nature, repressed and controlled in most of us, wars with the higher minds in those who practice this art, leaving them vulnerable.

Limit proficiencies to simple weapons and light armor?

Absolutely.

In hindsight, I'm thinking the simplest (but still somewhat flexible approach) would be to have most or all of the powers granted by the class come in the form of at-will abilities, similar to a Warlock's Invocations.

That makes sense. Despite the crazy fluff of the class, it is, at its heart, a melee class. If it helps, think of it as sort of a Barbarian (the HD & ferocity) with a touch of Ranger or Scout (stealthiness & subtlety) and the Druid (shapechanging, natch).

The lowest level powers would provide skill bonuses or things like lowlight vision or resistance to temperature extremes. The next tier would represent basic forms, with one selection available to a 1st level character. Two higher tiers would represent higher level options. What to call the 'levels'? Or the 'powers' themselves?

You might want to peek at the geomancer PrCl for some ideas.

Personally, I'm thinking low-light or darkvision should be a standard 1st level power for Skinwalkers- double range if they already have that benefit from another race or class.

Other benefits you might want to base on the particular kind of animal forms the Skinwalker learn.

Overall, as a potential GM, my personal take on this class is that I'd be more comfortable with the class if there were a clear tradeoff in its abilities between power and flexibility.

(I'm just throwing this out there...)

IOW, I could see one Skinwalker mastering many forms, but none of them are particularly powerful, whereas another might master a single form, but be able to improve on it constantly. Yet another might be a master of verminous swarms.

The first might have no form bigger than his natural size, some of which could swim, others could fly, some of which could burrow, one of which might regenerate (slowly).

The second might have a single (probably predatory) creature as his basic form- perhaps equivalent to a "juvenile." Eventually, he could become the equivalent of an "adult." Then he might be able to add in things we think of as templates- Feral, for instance, then Dire.

The third would start off with a number of creatures in its swarm equivalent to his HD (or something), with the swarm growing in size over time. Because of the relative power of his creature form, perhaps, like the first kind of skinwalker, he can master a few different kinds of vermin forms, and perhaps, like the second kind, he can improve his verminous swarms with templates.

Another thought- perhaps this class has options that only open up with multiclassing.

For instance, a Skinwalker with divine caster levels could choose to add Fiendish or Celestial elements to their forms, depending upon their alignment.

(OTOH, this might also be something for a shapechanging PrCl.)