D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

The Athar faction based in Sigil and the Astral Plane, has Atheism (though some members are agnostic) as the main point of their philosophy and have many members who are Clerics who can use Divine magic just fine without any of the Gods involved. Other factions do have Clerics devoted to their philosophies, there were examples of Believers of Source (who are now part of the Mind's Eye) having clerics of their philosophy.
 

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Voadam

Legend
I guess if the god could turn off your magic it would be pretty convincing evidence for them being the source of it.
If demonstrated it would be some evidence, but anti magic could turn off your magic too without a wizard being the source of your cleric magic.

It is really hard to prove something is definitely a god in a D&D setting.
 

If demonstrated it would be some evidence, but anti magic could turn off your magic too without a wizard being the source of your cleric magic.

It is really hard to prove something is definitely a god in a D&D setting.
You can invent some loopholes, but if the god can consistently turn off magic of their priests, but not magic of other people, then that would be good enough by reasonable standards.
 



EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Which goes back to the powers being divinely granted which isn’t what 5E says. My Innkeeper can just swear an Oath to themselves and gain power.
It does not go back to that. The oath can be tapping into something ambient, external, sacred, while still being personal.

Just because something arises from a personal choice to dedicate to something, does not mean that the results of that dedication are now somehow exclusively derived from within the self. But that false conclusion is the only way you can get to "swear an Oath to themselves and gain power."

They aren't swearing an Oath to themselves. They are simply swearing a capital-O Oath. And such Oaths, when real and true, are power, in and of themselves. The overwhelming majority of little-o oaths do not do this. They do not have the commitment, the purity, the severity that an Oath has.

Breaking an oath simply has consequences because you feel bad, or others may learn of your failure to uphold it and thus think less of you. Breaking an Oath actually costs you.
 

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