If the mage spells are being weakened, what compensation is being given to the mage?

[Arcane Runes Press]

Well your not hearing the other side. Here is a long time player of wizards is telling you he will no longer play the class. Doesn't that worry you? From you username you know my usual class, but all these changes worry me. It's not just a hand full of spells, from what we have seen all categories expept divination and evocation have been changed. Evocation was nerfed in 3e. It's not just spells either thier feats are also being nerfed, so far spell focus and greater spell focus. I'm sorry I don't want every party member to be a warrior. But since WOTC and apparently the community in general don't care, I probably will just drop out of the hobby.

In other news, the sky is falling..... again.

Patrick Y.

 

[rangerjohn]

Bye!

 

[Felon]

Well your not hearing the other side. Here is a long time player of wizards is telling you he will no longer play the class. Doesn't that worry you?

No, it's just a lot of irrational static.

Evocation was nerfed in 3e.

Damn, all those fireballs blowing up my foes must've blinded me to their nerfedness

It's not just spells either thier feats are also being nerfed, so far spell focus and greater spell focus. I'm sorry I don't want every party member to be a warrior. But since WOTC and apparently the community in general don't care, I probably will just drop out of the hobby. [/B]

I'd like to know where the info about the alleged changes to Spell Focus came from. Is this just another bit of info inferred from some NPC's stat black in an issue of Dungeon, or is it something we know for a fact?

Don't blame "the community" for its lack of sympathy. All the disgruntled folks out there desperately need to get their act together if they want to muster support for their position.

Disgruntled magic-users, heed this advice:

1) Inflated, unsupported generalizations get you no sympathy. They get you written-off as a whining troll. Don't just say "the wizard seems weaker now". Make an arguement and support it in detail. Provide examples. It is not enough to simply say "this spell's been nerfed". Strictly speaking, "nerfed" is just a vague term meaning something's bee made less potent than it previously was; it does not equate to "impotent". It's a troll's word. Demonstrate how the spell is no longer worth having.

2) Make consistent arguements. Don't complain about how the reduced duration of buffing spells makes the spellcaster less useful as a team player, and then complain about the revised Haste because you don't wanna play a support role.

3) Can the melodrama. Don't act like a victim. Don't talk about Wizards like it's your parents playing favorites with your brothers and sisters. That's all just irrational and childish spew and encourages people to be dismissive of your opinions. And by all means, don't go on about how you're going to quit: if you were really disheartened enough to quit, you'd probably just quit. You wouldn't complain ad nauseum for weeks unto months, knowing how futile it all was since the revised PHB is already in the hopper.

4) Stick to commenting on things you're INFORMED about. Don't react to every little rumor with "now I know 3.5e is nerfing wizards and I'm refusing to play one".

In short, cut the theatrics and the bull, calm down, and think like a person who's trying to get his point-of-view across rather than someone who's just looking to start an arguement.

 

[ForceUser]

Edena, nobody really knows what the extent of the changes will be, but rest assured that WotC is a business and wants its playerbase happy. Don't let the Chicken Littles blow it out of proportion - wait until you have read the 3.5 rulebooks before forming an opinion. That's what I'm doing.

 

[rangerjohn]

Well let me put it this way, since the only place I've been able to play lately is here, and I don't like where 3.5 is going, its not chicken little when I say I will probably quit. I don't see an alternative.

 

[rangerjohn]

As for not complaining, how else would you suggest I vent at the loss of a hobby I have had for 20+ years?

 

[rangerjohn]

BTW Felon what foes were dropping to an average of 15 hps of damage (the average damage from a 10th lvl, hence max without feats ) fireball.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Simple enough, this.
From what I'm hearing and reading, some mage spells are being reduced in duration, and others are being altered in their effects (such as Haste.)
There seems to be a consensus that - for the purpose of these spells only - the mage is being weakened as a class.

What gives, here?

From what you're hearing and reading, it must be a different list than I'm hearing and reading because the mage isn't being weakened as a class but is instead being 'balanced' as a class so what gives here is personal interpetation.

 

[Felon]

BTW Felon what foes were dropping to an average of 15 hps of damage (the average damage from a 10th lvl, hence max without feats ) fireball.

Please clarify what you're talking about. 10d6 averages to 35 points of damage (17 when saving for half).

The most recent battle when evocation spells saved our hides from a TPK was against a group of 8 7th-level orc barbarians (some sort of elite brigade of butchers). Our party ranged from 2nd to 9th-level, average of 5th-level. The party priests, Kanibis Wilbury and William Bones, used flamestrikes and fireballs to do more collective damage than all 4 of the warriorrs put together.

Now, 3/7 of the party did die (including poor, foolish Mr. Bones), but that's four more survivors than there would've been.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Until I see the higher level death spells, I cannot form an accurate opinion on the strength of the mage. The spells they have changed so far have not weakened the mage so much that they are not still extremely powerful. We'll see what the mage looks like when the 3.5 books are finally released.