If the mage spells are being weakened, what compensation is being given to the mage?

[Norfleet]

The real problem is that, outside of powerbuffing, mages are sorely lacking in goodness of nuking. The image that comes to mind of a mage in battle is the lobbing of explosive flaming death upon one's enemies, deadly energy blasts, and other such goodness.

Alas, my AK-47 holds more bullets in its magazine than most mages have of total spells to cast at most levels.

So you'd think that with such an anemic magazine capacity, mages would have a bit more punch, but no, most of their useful spells are either the soon-to-be-nerfed long-duration buffs, or incredibly lame save-or-die attacks which tend to automatically work against YOU because your saving throws are blatantly rigged, and tend to automatically fail because it's an unwritten rule that real enemies never fail saving throws. If an enemy fails a saving throw and dies like that, it's a pretty sure bet he wasn't anyone important.

The amount of flaming nuclear death in a mage's arsenal, even at levels where save-or-die starts becoming available, is limp-wristed at best.

 

[DreamChaser]

1) rangerjohn: what happened to "bye". It drives me up the wall when people throw temper tantrums and stop off just to stomp back because people didn't start agreeing with them when they left.

2) what the hell is a mage? it doesn't exist in 3e...it's been 3 years people. ADAPT!!!

3) The sorcerer in my last game was the #1 damage giver (except after a certain point when the ranger got a crit with his epic level lightning sword). No one cleared the field like she did.

4) I have had many many people choose to play various magic users. Not one of them has ever taken Haste. Only 1 took a stat buff (it was Eagle's Splender, same sorcerer above--cheep way to avoid a magical item). The classes have survived just fine.

5) Fine! Stop playing wizards. The large number of us who are happy with the changes will start. We all break even. Except those people who stomp off in an immature tantrum because they can't defend their argument and they know it so they restate the same things and leave so they can't be refuted.

6) There isn't one, but I wanted to end on an even number

DC

 

[DreamChaser]

The real problem is that, outside of powerbuffing, mages are sorely lacking in goodness of nuking. The image that comes to mind of a mage in battle is the lobbing of explosive flaming death upon one's enemies, deadly energy blasts, and other such goodness.

<snip>

The amount of flaming nuclear death in a mage's arsenal, even at levels where save-or-die starts becoming available, is limp-wristed at best.

This is a good point. And where is the fighters "Drive a Tank in the Goblin Ranks" feat? Why don't they get to carry around the REALLY BIG weapons?

DC

 

[Felon]

The real problem is that, outside of powerbuffing, mages are sorely lacking in goodness of nuking. The image that comes to mind of a mage in battle is the lobbing of explosive flaming death upon one's enemies, deadly energy blasts, and other such goodness.

True, it would be nice if Fireball, a 3rd-level spell, wasn't the king of nuking spells until Horrid Wilting becomes available at 8th.

 

[hong]

As for not complaining, how else would you suggest I vent at the loss of a hobby I have had for 20+ years?

I recommend Counterstrike.

 

[rangerjohn]

This will be my last post on the subject. Why ? Because in the end it doesn't matter who is right, only what is. WOTC have made their decision and apparently the majority agrees with them. I do not, that means I will no longer play, why play something if it no longer brings me pleasure? I'll just have to find another hobby.

 

[JChung2003]

rangerjohn, why not actually try playing 3.5 before declaring that it has completely ruined your enjoyment of the game?

Or just continue to play 3e or whatever edition of D&D suits your fancy. 3e rules won't self-destruct when 3.5 comes out.

 

[rangerjohn]

Am I to assume thier keeping back all the good parts? I don't like 99% of what I have heard. As for playing 3e the majority has made it plain they will be welcoming 3.5 with open arms.

 

[hong]

This will be my last post on the subject.

Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Obviously there are strong feelings on this subject.

Obvious, based on what I'm now hearing in chatsites.
Obvious, based on the Flames on this thread.
Obvious, when a 20 year Player is leaving the Hobby over the matter.

- - -

I must wonder if this move by WOTC will increase the sale of d20 products relating to spells and all things relating to spell casters?
I mean, in some of the games out there currently being run, one can try the spells, feats, and prestige classes from books like Relics and Rituals, or from the Mongoose Arcane Books, for example.
I notice that in many of these books, the power of spells are greater at a comparable level to those given in the Player's Handbook.
(That spell in Relics and Rituals that will blast an entire country to smithereens - Denev's something - at 9th level, is pretty powerful ... )

Perhaps WOTC is trying to backload the power of mages? That is, they are trying to grant more of the character's power when he reaches high level, and less at low level?
I must wonder how much they will revise the Epic Level Handbook (I have heard of Epic Feats being downgraded to normal Feats, so this would count as a change to the Epic Level Handbook ... ) after all this is over?
I wonder if they will revise the Epic Spells, how they are created, and how difficult it is to cast them compared to what they can accomplish?