Illusionist Core Class - comments please

[Malin Genie]

Posted this in the General RPG forum originally trying to address the question "can the flavour of the 1E illusionist be captured?"

This class attempts to create an illusionist which is different to the core wizard - focussing very much on illusion, distraction, light and darkness etc. I have taken spells from many sources to create the final spell list, which gives them a lot of illusion, often at a lower level than the Sor/Wiz but restricted spells outside - mostly those designed to mislead or baffle, plus a few of the general utility spells.

Interested in any comments - positive, negative, suggested improvements....



Illusionist Variant Core Class:

As wizard, including spells/day, spell preparation, hd, saves, BAB, armour and weapon proficiencies, with the following differences.

No familiar
Add Bluff, Disguise, Knowledge (Arcana), Perform, Sleight of Hand to skill list
Remove Alchemy, Knowledge(Any) from skill list
4 + Int skill points/level

Scribe Scroll at 1st level
At 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th bonus feat. Either Metamagic or pick one of: Create Wondrous Item, SF (Illusion), GSF (Illusion)#, Arcane Defence (Illusion)+, Improved Concentration (new, described below)

Spell List:

0th level: Arcane Mark, Control Shadow%, Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Elfsight%, Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Ventriloquism

1st level: Cause Fear, Change Self, Colour Spray, Comprehend Languages, Conceal Thoughts%, Detect Secret Doors, Erase, Ghost Light@, Hypnotism, Invisibility to Undead^, Leomund's Trap, Net of Shadows#, Nystul's Magical Aura, Nystul's Undetectable Aura, Obscuring Mist, Shadow Mask*, Silent Image, Sleep, Unseen Servant

2nd level: Blur, Claws of Darkness*, Control Light%, Daylight, Darkness, Darkvision, Fog Cloud, Hypnotic Pattern, Illusory Script, Invisibility, Magic Mouth, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Misdirection, Moonbeam#, Obscure Object, Pyrotechnics, Scare, Secret Page, See Invisibility, Shadow Spray*, Silence, Undetectable Alignment^, Whispering Wind

3rd level: Amplified Invisibility%, Blacklight#, Blink, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Daylight^, Deeper Darkness^, Displacement, False Sensory Input%, Flashburst*, Hallucinatory Terrain, Illusory Wall, Invisibility Purge^, Invisibility Sphere, Khelben's Suspended Silence*, Major Image, Nondetection, Phantom Steed, Rope Trick, Sculpt Sound, Sepia Snake Sigil

4th level: Aiming at the Target@, Detect Scrying, Dispel Magic, False Vision, Fear, Gaseous Form, Hold Person, Improved Invisibility, Mirage Arcana, Phantasmal Killer, Rainbow Pattern, Scrying, Seeming, Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Well*

5th level: Confusion, Dream, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Ghostform+, Leomund's Secret Chest, Mass Invisibility, Mind Fog, Mislead, Nightmare, Programmed Image, Servant Horde@, Shadow Evocation, Shadow Hand*, True Seeing, Veil

6th level: Brilliant Blast%, Greater Dispelling, Greater Shadow Evocation, Guards and Wards, Fantastic Machine#, Permanent Image, Prismatic Eye*, Repulsion, Sequester, Shades, Shadow Walk, Translocation Trick*

7th level: Aura Alteration%, Ethereal Jaunt, Finding the Centre@, Mind Blank, Passwall, Prismatic Spray, Screen, Sequester, Simulacrum, Teleport, Vision

8th level: Dream Travel%, Insanity, Limited Wish, Maze, Plane Shift, Prismatic Wall, Sunburst, Vanish, Weird

9th level: Antipathy, Astral Projection, Clone, Greater Fantastic Machine#, Moonfire#, Prismatic Sphere, Spell Turning, Sympathy, Teleport Without Error

---

 

[thullgrim]

(1) I think your off to a very good start. Some of the spells on the spell list I disagree with but for flavor reasons for the most part.

(2) I think they should get SF and GSF as bonus feats for free, but then I think all specialist wizards should under the core rules so take it for whats its worth. I definitely think Sf is a good replacement for the familiar.

(3) This is more about the way illusions in general are handled. I have been thinking of creating a Craft: Illusion skill that would make the DC to disbelieve an opposed roll based on the success of the Illusionists skill roll. This would allow the DC to skill with level as the Illusionist becomes better at his craft, rather than as he gets more stat adding items.... comments would be appreciated.

I may have more later after I think about it some more.

Thullgrim

 

[LeifVignirsson]

I agree with Thull here, but I have to point out something here. There is already a base Core Illusionist in the School of Illusion book from Fantasy Flight Games and if you wish to tinker with it from that basis then that would make it easier. Of course, that isn't saying what I see here is a good start, but then I might just be lazy lmao

 

[Rary the Traitor]

I like it a lot, although I'm not sure if I'd rather play this core class instead of a normal illusion specialist. To lose access to sooooo many spells doesn't seem to be worth it.

I would definitely give this Illusionist Spell Focus: Illusion for free at 1st level, and Greater Spell Focus: Illusion later on.

Also, if some of the non-illusion spells are only going to be available at a higher level than they normally are, I don't think it would be inappropriate or unbalanced to make all or almost all illusions lower level spells. I notice you did it in a few cases, but classic illusion spells, such as Major Image, should be one level lower.

And I think you need to add a few more "utility" spells. Rary's Telepathic Bond and Contingency both fit into that category, IMO.

Another thing: In my opinion, if your goal is to give the Illusionist more flavor, you need to give the class at least one completely new, illusion-related class ability. I don't have the slightest idea what this ability could be, though. This new feat you (I assume) made up might fill that role nicely.

Finally, I believe the True Seeing spell would need to be reworked for this core class to be viable. As it is, this relatively low level spell negates almost the entirety of the Illusion school of magic. How about changing it so that it only automatically detects illusions of 3rd level or lower, and, against higher level illusions, allows the creature affected by True Seeing to make a Will save against the spell DC (even if he/she/it hasn't interacted with the illusion), but only if it has more HD than the character's level? Or something like that...

Anyway, despite what I've said, this is a great idea, and the Illusionist has always been one of my favorite character concepts. Keep up the good work.

EDIT: A few more points I'd like to address:

1) Is there any particular reason why you think Knowledge (Any) shouldn't be a class skill?

2) Don't you think your new Illusionist should have an extra memorized illusion spell per spell level, like the illusion specialist?

3) It would seem logical that this ultra-specialized class would get a bonus to spellcraft skill checks having to do with illusions, don't you agree?

 

[Malin Genie]

Thanks for the comments so far! Taking them in order:

thullgrim: You could quite reasonably replace Scribe Scroll with Spell Focus (Illusion) as the first level bonus Feat - in fact, it is probably a better idea; then add Scribe Scroll to the list of bonus Feats an illusionist can choose.

If an illusionist is trying to create the illusion of a wall, I might give a dwarf or a character with ranks in Craft(Stonemason) a circumstance bonus to saves, or the illusionist herself a circumstance bonus to save DC if she were a dwarf or had a few ranks in the appropriate Craft skill to make it more convincing. But I'd rather use the individual Craft or Knowledge (possibly Appraise) skills than a catch -all Craft(Illusion)

Leif: Yes I have seen alternate core classes done by other people (although not the particular one you hav mentioned.) but any class I post here will be based only on WotC books for maximum accessibility - also, I don't want to steal and post (even derivatives of) other people's ideas that they are trying to sell !!

Rary: I had an internal debate about the silent/minor/major image series. They could probably all go one level lower without causing balance issues. Yes they lose access to a lot of spells (but some of the "general utility spells" like Contingency and RTB could certainly be added back in - I just didn't really see either of those as particularly 'fitting' - not that they were 'unfitting' in any major way.... they definitely should get identify (maybe as L2 rather than L1?) and analyse dweomer (?L6 ?L7)

However, especially if you play in a campaign where access to spells from non-PHB sources is heavily restricted or banned, the wide range of illusion-related spells they pick up IMHO makes up for it. I do agree that if the campaign default is that you can use spells from FRCS/MoF and/or convert spells from the Wu Jen and Psion lists - then this class probably loses out to the "standard" illusionist.

I didn't really think about the Spellcraft checks issue - absolutely right, they should get a bonus (+4? +1/2 class level?) on illusion-related spellcraft checks. As for the "Knowledge(Any)" issue I just didn't see illusionists as sages sitting in towers in the same way as 'classical' wizards. I saw them more as having an aspect of trickster and performer - hence the Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand and Perform skills.

Maybe they could get an extra class ability/feat that spells which would normally see through illusions (e.g. true seeing) must make a CL check against DC 11 + illusionist level to penetrate the illusions of a "true" illusionist?

 

[Rary the Traitor]

Hmmm, what you say makes sense, and I like the idea of the Illusionist being more like a performer or trickster than a bookworm, but would he learn his spells as a Wizard would (having to buy or find new spells in spellbooks or scrolls), or would he automatically learn them all when gaining a new spell level, like Clerics and Druids? And would he have a spellbook?
If so, that makes them quite similar to Wizards, with all the hard work and studying that implies.
If not, where do they get their power from?


About True Seeing, to be frank, I think the spell is broken anyway (as is Mind Blank, but that's another story), but your idea sounds good, although I suppose it would have to be playtested or examined thoroughly before deciding on the appropriate DC required to see through the illusion.