D&D (2024) I'm a longtime player and there really is only one thing that will stop me from switching to 5.X

[dave2008]

Lack of digital platform support. If I can't play it on Roll20 or Foundry, it won't get adopted by my group. Also, full 5E compatibility: my group has informed me on no uncertain terms, that they will not be changing game systems.

Rules-wise? Damage-on-a-miss, because it breaks my immersion so badly. I'd rather play something else than try to shoehorn this in.

I assume you mean for non-magical attacks? Does that include saving throws? If not, why not.

I always found it a bit odd that a breath weapon (or fireball) does auto damage and if you save, half damage. Is there no way to avoid it completely, seems like there should be

 

[dave2008]

I guess if there was no physical option for books that might turn me off. I generally like/am fine with digital. However, I definitely want a physical Monster Manual. If I can't get that, it might turn me away from D&D.

EDIT: Of course I would just keep playing the current edition!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What about you? Ignore rules. Ignore setting. Where is your line on DnD as a product that you pay for where you would walk away? For example, I know that one of the things that drove some away with 4e was that the emphasis on using minis was an additional expense that made people not make the jump.

We worked around the minis thing in 4E by me buying a 1" hole punch (admittedly I did have to go to a very silly shop to find this, but it was kinda near Orc's Nest) and a few sheets of coloured cardboard, total price under £10, and a got a fairly large remaindered misaligned Chessex wipe-clean grid map thing (which was like, £30 or something), and yes I was being cheap on purpose because I was offended by the notion of minis. Then I just glued 1p coins to the back of the 1" circles and wrote monster indicators on the circles (like K1 for Kobold 1 but of course it could also be Kenku 1 or whatever).

That worked extremely well for the whole time we played 4E.

I will say that had 3.XE not made us already feel like the game needed minis even though it claimed not to, I might have been put off by that. Instead because I really liked how 4E played from our trials, I just spent a little money.

I think things that would stop me continuing to buy 5E stuff are:

1) WotC continuing on the PG and only PG (never even PG-13) tonal path that they seem to be on. It's not something that makes me angry, it's something that makes me bored, and I've seen companies go this way before - it doesn't end well. It ends in maximum bland which isn't even that exciting to kids, let alone teenagers.

2) Attempts to make it so we can't/don't own content beyond what they're already doing with Beyond.

3) Deciding that the 3D VTT is the future and all design efforts should center around that. Unfortunately I feel like this decision may already have been made by WotC high-ups even if 5E's designers don't yet have that memo.

 

[Deset Gled]

If I wasn't already turned off by the rules, it would be randomized content, loot boxes, etc.

Isn't D&D one of the original homes of random loot? Both in game (tables) and in the form of random mini boxes?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Isn't D&D one of the original homes of random loot? Both in game (tables) and in the form of random mini boxes?

It's a very different thing when you're finding random loot inside a game, or paying real money for "loot" (usually cosmetics etc.) in the context of a videogame/VTT. The latter is being discussed.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think of blind/random minis as a very new thing (because I'm rather an old thing, myself, I guess).
And, clearly, a thing inspired by the CCGs that gave WotC life.

That said, minis were a huge part of wargaming back in the day, and of D&D, which grew out of wargames. And they were toxic lead. And we were glad to have 'em.
And, yeah, they were a comparatively expensive part if you bought a lot of 'em.

And, y'know, we used dice and pawns from other games and whatnot when we didn't have a mini, so

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think of blind/random minis as a very new thing (because I'm rather an old thing, myself, I guess).

I mean, blind bags have been around since the 1990s, minis-wise. Like, I have a bunch of minis from sales GW did of blind-bagged minis from general categories, like Necromunda.

And it became an obnoxious thing, in like, the early '00s with Heroclix-type stuff being "blind".

 

[Professor Murder]

1) WotC continuing on the PG and only PG (never even PG-13) tonal path that they seem to be on. It's not something that makes me angry, it's something that makes me bored, and I've seen companies go this way before - it doesn't end well. It ends in maximum bland which isn't even that exciting to kids, let alone teenagers.

I can appreciate this, but honestly it's not something that really gives me much pause, mostly because I put so much of my own work into developing settings to play in, even if they are published ones. Just as I have been easily able to excise objectional materials over the decades, so can I push past bowdlerization in the setting. But I can feel how when rules soften and reduce consequences of choices, it can turn some people off. Honestly, again, I just change it to suit the tone I need for my table, but I grok wanting material to support your preferred playstyle because, in the end, that's what you are paying for.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I can appreciate this, but honestly it's not something that really gives me much pause, mostly because I put so much of my own work into developing settings to play in, even if they are published ones. Just as I have been easily able to excise objectional materials over the decades, so can I push past bowdlerization in the setting. But I can feel how when rules soften and reduce consequences of choices, it can turn some people off. Honestly, again, I just change it to suit the tone I need for my table, but I grok wanting material to support your preferred playstyle because, in the end, that's what you are paying for.

Yeah if I didn't want to buy material, I have literally dozens to hundreds of RPGs in print and PDF already that I could use.

 

[Clint_L]

For context, I have been a DnD player since 1e of ADnD, back around 1982 or so by my best guess. I am a DM at heart and I buy a good deal of books overall. I have switched with every edition of ADnD into DnD, including the .5 style material. each time a new edition or demi-edition has come out, I have switched. The closest I have come to not doing this was 4e, but even that I played for the entirety of its publishing life.

None of the above is to brag, as it seems a rather silly thing to brag about. It is for context. I am a highly invested, high commitment DnD gamer and my purchase history reflects that. I have only mildly been following proposed rules changes in the playtest materials because, given my personal history, I'm expecting to switch to 5.X when it drops, cycling out 5e material as it gets superseded, just as I did with 3e to 3.5 for example.

All that said, there is one thing that will force my hand to not follow through, and that is radically changing how I interact with the game economically. for me, online tools and resources are a supplement, a tool which aids in my tabletop experience. But I want physical books. I want to make one time purchases and have a resource on my bookshelf. For its many crimes, the true failing for me with 4e was the constant rules updates and errata, the constant tinkering, that made my books inaccurate. If 5.x were to move to a digital first priority, I am going to be turned off. If it moves to a model where I pay a subscription to play as a given, rather than as ais, I am out.

What about you? Ignore rules. Ignore setting. Where is your line on DnD as a product that you pay for where you would walk away? For example, I know that one of the things that drove some away with 4e was that the emphasis on using minis was an additional expense that made people not make the jump.

Physical books aren't going anywhere, so you'll be fine. My line in the sand would be the opposite: if they broke DnDBeyond or made me unable to access and share all my stuff. And I run so many campaigns that losing DDB would cost me hours every week. Fortunately, they have doubled and tripled down on it, so I think I'm safe.

I guess the other line would be radical changes so the game didn't feel right to me. I barely played 4e for that reason - not that it is a bad game, but it just didn't feel right for a D&D game, for me. YVMV and that's great!