I'm thinking of a TPK

[paradox42]

Agreed. IME this is usually something that relatively new players do; they need to be taught that some warnings really shouldn't be ignored and their characters are not in fact immortal (at least, not before they reach uber-Epic levels and undergo divine ascension). It's a hard thing to do as a GM, but sometimes it has to be done.

And don't pull punches on the retreat option, either- make sure that the enemy does everything he can think of (and do) to prevent such escape- if the PCs manage to get away, make sure it is through genuine one-in-a-million luck, or extremely clever thinking and tactics. Doing anything less is a disservice to the dungeon and the game. Again, this is a hard thing to do as GM, but sometimes necessary.

 

[pauljathome]

And don't pull punches on the retreat option, either.

I disagree with this. That IS likely to lead to player dissatisfaction.

I'm not saying that you should make retreating totally trivial. Certainly have the bad guys do the obvious things (attacks of opportunity, a last spell, whatever). But unless they have a compelling reason to pursue the PCs they should just let them go. From the bad guys point of view, they've won. Why take risks for reasonably little gain? Why force the PCs to fight to the death and therefore potentially take down some of your side?

Note - I don't know the module in question. If the NPCs DO have a compelling reason to kill the PCs or the PCs have acted so as to GIVE them a compelling reason (I've seen PCs go out of their way to humiliate and infuriate enemies) then kill them.

 

[paradox42]

I'm not saying that you should make retreating totally trivial. Certainly have the bad guys do the obvious things (attacks of opportunity, a last spell, whatever).

This was what I meant. Many GMs, if looking to give the PCs one final "out," will pull punches- have enemies "forget" attacks of opportunity, structure their buffs just slightly wrong, or the like- to make the PCs' escape easier than it should be. People advising allowing a retreat, above, seemed to be advocating this sort of idea.

Which was why I said, don't do it. Don't pull the punches. Play the enemy to the hilt. If luck of the dice or good PC tactics let them get away, then so be it- but the enemy should be playing for keeps just as much as the PCs are. Especially in RA, which (as many others have noted) is supposed to be a particularly deadly place.

EDIT: since I do have RA, and therefore know what this Big Bad is, I've been trying to come up with a spoiler-free way of explaining why retreat should be especially difficult here. Since I haven't come up with one, I'll mark this is spoiler tags:

Spoiler

Zelkor's a spectre, and the area in question is his personal lair- so the PCs are both intruding into his own personal domain, and he's a being that can pursue them through walls and other solid barriers if they try to get away. Not the sort of fight one can typically walk away from.

 

[milo]

Retreat is extremely difficult in this one. Spoiler:

Spoiler

The door closes behind them 2 rounds after they open it, Zelkor can open it or it can be opened with dispel. No one in the party has dispel, and even if they did they would only have a 30% chance of succeeding on the roll.

The one thing going for them is the room has a high DC to find, but the trap finding ranger has an insane perception check.

 

[Squire James]

In your position I would let them run. Sometimes being laughed at is more unpleasant than being killed. Of course, if they really demand it, kill them all!

 

[DaveMage]

The Zelkor encounter was the last encounter my party faced in Rappan Athuk. (Not a complete TPK, but close.)



Alas, Sir Benjamin, my paladin, died a heroic death that day....

 

[Lwaxy]

We had 3 TPKs when I played this, and only one group has ever managed to get through when I ran it without a TPK. It's meant to be crushing the PCs especially if they aren't careful.

If they don't listen, let them drop