Imbued magic part deux

[Kaodi]

Are you able to reassign points at any time, or at certain times, or, ummm... ever? Also, would intelligence aquired in this manner not count when determining bonus skill points?

 

[hong]

Are you able to reassign points at any time, or at certain times, or, ummm... ever? Also, would intelligence aquired in this manner not count when determining bonus skill points?

No reassigning, any more than if you were dealing with actual magic items. If I had an indecisive or impulsive player, I'd let them change points around -- but that goes for all crunch ("okay, you don't have to stick with that scout level you took while you were drunk...").

As for Int, good catch. I don't see a problem with having it grant skill points.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

why not use the Craft Points variant from Unearthed Arcana?

 

[hong]

Craft points solve a different problem to what I'm trying to deal with. With craft points, the assumption is that PCs have the gold and XP needed to make stuff, but they don't have the time. By spending craft points, they can make stuff in a jiffy, but they still need to meet the usual gp and XP costs.

What I'm after is something that reduces the importance of gp and XP. Time is a secondary issue; I don't have a problem with months of downtime between adventures if necessary.

As a secondary objective, I'd also like to make the big six (as Andy Collins called it) less prominent in the magic item universe. Straight stat boosters are boring; holy swords, pearls of power and winged boots are more interesting.

 

[Kaodi]

Also, if you look at the RAW, you can get items that give an armour bonus and a shield bonus without actually using armour or shield, so would those bonuses NOT be restricted by whether you were actually wearing armour and shield? Otherwise, a monk would get hosed compared to fighter types. And if you have the weapon bonus count seperately as melee and ranged, will unarmed count as melee or will it be its own category as well? Also, under your system, there is very little reason to get a natural armour bonus, because without quadratic costs, an extra point in deflection will always be vastly superior and cost the same.

 

[Kaodi]

Anyway...

Armoured Bob - 8th level human fighter; str 17, dex 13, con 14, int 10, wis 11, cha 12; weapon focus (longsword), weapon specialization (longsword), greater weapon specialization (longsword), power attack, cleave, combat reflexes, dodge, mounted combat, ride by attack; masterwork full plate, masterwork heavy shield, masterwork longsword; +2 armour, +2 shield, +2 melee weapon, +2 saves; HP 68; Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +4; AC 25 (+1 dex, +10 armour, +4 shield), touch 11, flat-footed 24; Full Atk +15/+11 (1d8+7/19-20, masterwork longsword)

Naked Bob - 8th level human monk; str 13 dex 17 con 12 int 11 wis 14 cha 10;
improved unarmed strike, improved grapple, combat reflexes, improved trip, weapon finesse, dodge, mobility, spring attack; +2 armour, +2 shield, +2 melee, +2 saves; HP 51; Fort +9, Ref +11, Will +10; AC 20 (+3 dex, +2 wis, +1 monk, +2 armour, +2 shield), touch 16, flat-footed 17; Flurry of Blows +10/+10/+5 (1d10+3, unarmed strike)

 

[Nellisir]

Uhh....

Bonuses obtained in this way don't take up magic item spaces (since they're not, you know, items). Even if you get a +5 armor bonus to AC, that applies to any armor that you wear. Ditto weapons, although in this case I might split it by melee/missile category: so you can get +5 with sword, spear and axe, but if you want the same with a bow, you'll have to buy it separately.​

So it already is by "group", the groups being melee vs ranged. (Thrown weapons apply whichever bonus is applicable to how they're being used.)

I think jm was confused by my comment, which mentioned weapon groups. My concern with your method is that, if the bonus is to all weapons (or possibly "just" all melee or all ranged), it really becomes just a bonus to BAB.

So, you don't get "+4 breastplate", you get a +4 armor bonus to AC. And you don't get a +2 sword, you get a +2 bonus to BAB with melee weapons.

I like the idea, but I also like harnessing it to actual items or some magical "token", like a mystical oil the character has to apply every day to get the bonus or something. Transferable as some kind of ritual or ceremony is ok, but not as a free action in the middle of an encounter, which is what it sounds like right now ("I drop my +5 longsword and pull out my dagger, which is now +5...next round I'll drop the dagger and pull out my +5 mace to bash the skeletons..."). Harnessing the bonus to a weapon or armor group seemed like a compromise between any armor/weapon and only one armor/weapon.

In either case, I think I'd drop armor and weapon bonuses (from actual items, like the holy sword) altogether and only place abilities on the weapons/armor. Any straight bonus would be pointless if the character's innate bonus exceeds it, so the gp cost for that bonus is wasted money from the character's point of view (admittedly, 2,000gp / 1,000gp aren't huge sums, but still...).

This also downshifts the cost of the items one step, so more interesting weapons are potentially available at a lower level.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[jmucchiello]

So, you don't get "+4 breastplate", you get a +4 armor bonus to AC. And you don't get a +2 sword, you get a +2 bonus to BAB with melee weapons.

For precision, call that an enhancement bonus to attack. If you call it a +2 bonus to BAB, it affects Power Attack and Expertise.

Kaodi: The monk would buy deflection and natural AC bonuses, not enhancements to armor. Perhaps your concern should be that players not be allowed to purchase armor enhancements and natural armor bonuses.

Or the problem is cost: At 9th level, you have 12 points with a +3 max (or at least that's the assumption I'll be using):

Paranoid Armored Bob: can spend 3 on armor bonus, 3 on shield bonus, 6 on deflection bonus for a +9 armor bonus on top of his actual armor and shield.

Paranoid Monk Bob: can spend 6 on deflection bonus and 6 on natural bonus for +6 armor bonus on top of his Monk bonus (which is WIS + 2 at 9th level, barely as good as say Chainshirt)

As usual, the monk is screwed by magic items.

 

[Nifft]

Seems really good -- balanced and flexible (but only strategically, rather than tactically).

I wouldn't use it, because I would like to somehow adapt a more Incarnum-like system (re-allocate "point pool" as a Swift action, and you can invest "points" in items or class features or something).

Cheers, -- N

 

[hong]

Also, if you look at the RAW, you can get items that give an armour bonus and a shield bonus without actually using armour or shield, so would those bonuses NOT be restricted by whether you were actually wearing armour and shield?

I'm thinking of splitting it as: no armour, light, medium, heavy. Each of these is bought separately. So if you're a monk, you would get a +5 armour enhancement bonus, only usable when not actually wearing armour (oxymorons 'r' us).

This is less than you could get with +8 bracers, so I'd also let them benefit from a +5 shield enhancement bonus despite not using a shield. But only monks, not guys with greatswords, since I'm mean and nasty that way.

Otherwise, a monk would get hosed compared to fighter types. And if you have the weapon bonus count seperately as melee and ranged, will unarmed count as melee or will it be its own category as well? Also, under your system, there is very little reason to get a natural armour bonus, because without quadratic costs, an extra point in deflection will always be vastly superior and cost the same.

Yeah, true. I'm not too worried. Eventually they'll fill up their deflection allowance and have to look elsewhere for bigger numbers.