Immortals Handbook (aka The Worship Points System)

[Bjorn Doneerson]

More Ramblin'

First off Steve Martin is "da man." (Not to be confused with "the man" who is apparently trying to keep us down)

Not anything Important just something that kinda bothers me. Using Demigod as a god-rank is fine, but must all demigods be of demigod rank? I would hope not. But what do you call a demigod who's a lesser god?

Oh and Krusty are you gonna keep your divinity ranks, yours seem more complete and just generally mo' bettah. I like having ranks like "Entity" for your forces of nature and "Time Lord" for whatever you need a time lord for(?) The most-highest rank should be: "All-Knowing Master of Space Time and Dimension." (Actually, that's my family's nickname for someone who's really full of them self but isn't half as bright as they claim to be.)

I have to admit I was kinda dissapointed to find out that Kord has 55 str(did someone say that or am I hallucinating) I wanted those inter-pantheon arm-wrestling contests to be close. On the other hand, I thought Hercules orKord would be the strongest and Thor would get Mjollnir(funny how everyone spells that differently, eh?) as compensation. Krusty were you there when I asked a WotC person if they were biased in their statting and they said all the strong-gods would have their advantages and disadvantages? Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't 90 str come out to a lifting capacity of 204.8 tons?

One last thing, remember in older editions certain gods could lift almost anything?("Remember that?"....."That was Awesome!") I want a rule for that. Maybe at a certain str level gods can qualify for that power and all with that power can hurl planet-sized boulders at each other, but the ones with higher str scores deal more damage with their planet-sized boulder attacks?

And I apoligize for never spelling out the word strength in this message, I'm tired.

And if anyone reads my sig, I'm Dan and Tim's right!

 

[S'mon]

But what he did was illegal. Fraud is a felony, and he lied to me by telling me he was the only agent that didn't charge reading fees, and that all agents charged the deposit for expenses. (Both of those statements are OUTRIGHT LIES.) That is fraud.

Why he hasn't been caught already is beyond me. He's breaking the law!

I don't know much about US fraud law or civil procedure, sorry.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: More Ramblin'

Hi Bjorn mate!

First off Steve Martin is "da man." (Not to be confused with "the man" who is apparently trying to keep us down)

Steve Martin...the comedian!?

Not anything Important just something that kinda bothers me. Using Demigod as a god-rank is fine, but must all demigods be of demigod rank? I would hope not. But what do you call a demigod who's a lesser god?

I don't think the term Demigod represents a being that is half-mortal/half-deity anymore. But rather is reflective of a measurement of power.

Would a mortal born son of Zeus automatically have +1 Divine Rank?

Oh and Krusty are you gonna keep your divinity ranks, yours seem more complete and just generally mo' bettah. I like having ranks like "Entity" for your forces of nature and "Time Lord" for whatever you need a time lord for(?)

I am keeping my Divine Ranks (extension). I will substitute them for Uber-deity.

The reason I have ranks above Greater God is simply that many such beings in mythology (and fiction) were beyond greater power.

Take Greek Mythology.

The Primal force was Chaos; out of that came Erebus and Nyx; then Gaea and Uranus; followed by Kronos, Rhea et al....then Zeus.

Virtually every mythology has beings beyond Greater Gods - my work simply reflects that.

I'm also not one to 'cop-out' on stats. WotC's "Uber-deities" are just a continuation of the flawed 2nd Ed. mantra they used for regular divinities "they're so powerful they shouldn't have stats, blah, blah, blah." When, of course, power is merely relative.

The most-highest rank should be: "All-Knowing Master of Space Time and Dimension." (Actually, that's my family's nickname for someone who's really full of them self but isn't half as bright as they claim to be.)

Not much of a catchy title.

Divine Rank 71 would create a 12 dimensional-being. (Scientific F-Theory introduces, or expounds upon the idea of 12 dimensions).

I have to admit I was kinda dissapointed to find out that Kord has 55 str (did someone say that or am I hallucinating) I wanted those inter-pantheon arm-wrestling contests to be close. On the other hand, I thought Hercules or Kord would be the strongest and Thor would get Mjollnir (funny how everyone spells that differently, eh?) as compensation.

Well Kord, nor Hercules are as powerful as Thor: in Divine Ranks at least!.

Krusty were you there when I asked a WotC person if they were biased in their statting and they said all the strong-gods would have their advantages and disadvantages?

Of course I was there, I am omnipresent!

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't 90 str come out to a lifting capacity of 204.8 tons?

I thought (off the top of my head) Strength 90 was more like 3200 tons.

One last thing, remember in older editions certain gods could lift almost anything? ("Remember that?"....."That was Awesome!") I want a rule for that.

'Capping' 1st/2nd Ed. ability scores did have a number of flaws though.

Maybe at a certain str level gods can qualify for that power and all with that power can hurl planet-sized boulders at each other, but the ones with higher str scores deal more damage with their planet-sized boulder attacks?

At strength 410 you could lift an Earth sized planet - if you could lever it.

And I apoligize for never spelling out the word strength in this message, I'm tired.

No apology necessary!

And if anyone reads my sig, I'm Dan and Tim's right!

I thought you were called Bjorn and living in Scandinavia...now you're telling me your name is Dan and you are from Canada!?

 

[Knight Otu]

Hello, all!

(second try - the browser ate the first one )

Interesting overview, Gez! I'm not sure if it is my kind of Science Fiction, but it sounds interesting. My initial thought, that it takes place on a larger cosmic scale than Perry Rhodan, seems to fit. Perry Rhodan has other universes (Tarkan, the Shrinking; "Druufspace"; antimatter universe of the Accalauries; the Arresum, though technically it is part of "our" universe; the anti-universe temporarily created by Anti-IT during the cosmic game of chess), but th main focus is "our" universe, especially the Milky Way and Terra.
The emigration to another universe somewhat reminds me of the transfer of the galaxy from the dying universe Hangay into "our" universe. (Although in this case the scale is larger in Perry Rhodan is larger that the scale in this series if i read it right?)
From the sound of it, John Difool has a power that allows him to affect the real world from his dreams? (There is a similar power in Perry Rhodan called Zerodream, which so far has only manifested in two individuals)


Regarding the Demigod issue: The canon of D&D, as far as we can tell, is that being a demigod is a question of power rather than a question of heritage, as it is in the myths. However most mythological demigods, such as Hercules and Gilgamesh, do also fit into the power category of demigods (DR 1-5), so there isn't much of a problem. As for children of Gods and mortals, i'd say that they might be DR 0 "hero-deities" with the possibility to advance in DR.
Problems do come when the term demigod is used in a third way, as Sword & Sorcery did in Divine and Defeated, where every god that is not a Titan, and not one of the Eight Victors, is a demigod, even though they span (in my opinion) the DRs from 2 or 3 for Nalthalos to 15 for Nemorga, thus representing all kinds of Gods.
My take on the Eight Victors would be that they are DR 17 (Tanil), to DR 19 (Corean and Vangal, with Corean a possible DR 20). Denev might be DR 25 (as would be most shattered Titans if they could reform), Lethene and Thulkas, who both were only banished, not destroyed might live on as DR 30. Golthain, even though permanently destroyed, might live on as a DR 1 "spark".

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello, all!

Hi Knight Otu mate!

I saw the pictures and post in the Perry Rhodan thread; I'll respond after I do this...the Creature of Quintatha looks great!

(second try - the browser ate the first one )

Only happens in the long posts doesn't it...

Interesting overview, Gez! I'm not sure if it is my kind of Science Fiction, but it sounds interesting. My initial thought, that it takes place on a larger cosmic scale than Perry Rhodan, seems to fit. Perry Rhodan has other universes (Tarkan, the Shrinking; "Druufspace"; antimatter universe of the Accalauries; the Arresum, though technically it is part of "our" universe; the anti-universe temporarily created by Anti-IT during the cosmic game of chess), but th main focus is "our" universe, especially the Milky Way and Terra.
The emigration to another universe somewhat reminds me of the transfer of the galaxy from the dying universe Hangay into "our" universe. (Although in this case the scale is larger in Perry Rhodan is larger that the scale in this series if i read it right?)
From the sound of it, John Difool has a power that allows him to affect the real world from his dreams? (There is a similar power in Perry Rhodan called Zerodream, which so far has only manifested in two individuals)

There are definite similarities but considering the genres are virtually identical that is to be expected!

Regarding the Demigod issue: The canon of D&D, as far as we can tell, is that being a demigod is a question of power rather than a question of heritage, as it is in the myths. However most mythological demigods, such as Hercules and Gilgamesh, do also fit into the power category of demigods (DR 1-5), so there isn't much of a problem. As for children of Gods and mortals, i'd say that they might be DR 0 "hero-deities" with the possibility to advance in DR.

I still want to get a good look at how WotC dishes out divinity.

Problems do come when the term demigod is used in a third way, as Sword & Sorcery did in Divine and Defeated, where every god that is not a Titan, and not one of the Eight Victors, is a demigod, even though they span (in my opinion) the DRs from 2 or 3 for Nalthalos to 15 for Nemorga, thus representing all kinds of Gods.
My take on the Eight Victors would be that they are DR 17 (Tanil), to DR 19 (Corean and Vangal, with Corean a possible DR 20). Denev might be DR 25 (as would be most shattered Titans if they could reform), Lethene and Thulkas, who both were only banished, not destroyed might live on as DR 30. Golthain, even though permanently destroyed, might live on as a DR 1 "spark".

Shouldn't be too hard to pin down.

The Titans are either Greater Gods or Elder Gods.

The 8 Victors are either Intermediate Gods or Greater Gods.

Others are Demigods and Lesser Gods.

Heralds may well be Quasi/Hero-deities?

Denev is the key. Either she is Divine Rank 20 or 25. After determining that the others fall into place.

 

[Anubis]

Hey UK, WASSUUUUUUUUUUP?!?!?!

Will there be rules for handling the children of deities in your book?

Will you PLEASE switch quasi-deity and hero-deity so that hero-deity comes first? (I don't care what WotC does, you do that and I'm sure most people would accept your words over their words!) It's just buggin' me!

 

[S'mon]

Will you PLEASE switch quasi-deity and hero-deity so that hero-deity comes first? (I don't care what WotC does, you do that and I'm sure most people would accept your words over their words!) It's just buggin' me!

I have to disagree - Gygax's placing of Quasi-deity ("as if a god") beneath Hero-Deity ("Hero Becoming a God") makes sense to me, and it's well-established in D&D cosmology, at least since the 1983 World of Greyhawk set.

 

[Bjorn Doneerson]

Yes Steve Martin the Comedian. The whole ramblin' guy thing was him. Bjorn was my first D&D character, for a while I played a second version with the last name Donnerson. Actually, Bjorn was Sven at first. When I registered on the D&D boards I mispelled Donnerson and kept it the new way when I came here. Most of my characters names involve a word for thunder or lightning(Donner, Thur) and something meaning son of(son, sen, or once ski) My Name is Dan and I live in the US, although I do go by the nickname Moose. Okay that was way off topic.

The "Master of Space Time and Dimension" thing was more like a joke that only I found funny.

I reworked strength, I was wrong. Ok tell me where I screw up here.

50 str=12.8 full lifting capacity
+10 *4
60= 51.2
70= 404.8
80= 1619.2
90= 6476.8

No pencil, no paper, no calculator, No PHB, I'll be suprised if its all right.

 

[Anubis]

I have to disagree - Gygax's placing of Quasi-deity ("as if a god") beneath Hero-Deity ("Hero Becoming a God") makes sense to me, and it's well-established in D&D cosmology, at least since the 1983 World of Greyhawk set.

I always interpreted Hero-Deity as "Hero As Powerful As A God", and Quasi-Deity was "Almost A God".

Plus, Hero - Quasi - Demi . . . Perfect!

I dunno. I didn't play 1st Edition, and I rarely played 2nd Edition. I always played original D&D.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK, WASSUUUUUUUUUUP?!?!?!

Hey Anubis mate!

Nice to see you in good spirits!

Will there be rules for handling the children of deities in your book?

Yes, and if you were specifically interested in the children of Immortal + mortal, divinity is not automatic.

Will you PLEASE switch quasi-deity and hero-deity so that hero-deity comes first? (I don't care what WotC does, you do that and I'm sure most people would accept your words over their words!) It's just buggin' me!

Hi Simon!

I have to disagree - Gygax's placing of Quasi-deity ("as if a god") beneath Hero-Deity ("Hero Becoming a God") makes sense to me, and it's well-established in D&D cosmology, at least since the 1983 World of Greyhawk set.

I always interpreted Hero-Deity as "Hero As Powerful As A God", and Quasi-Deity was "Almost A God".

Plus, Hero - Quasi - Demi . . . Perfect!

I dunno. I didn't play 1st Edition, and I rarely played 2nd Edition. I always played original D&D.

The whole Quasi- and Hero-deity issue will be addressed. From what I can tell WotC lump the two together, but I'll need to make a more detailed examination of D&Dg before giving my prognosis.

However I plan on having a class before where they currently place Qd/Hd. However, I have not yet decided the properties/name of this class yet (remember I initially split the two).

It may be something other than the above two, but like I said I can't give exact details yet.