Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

It may also be noted that the math seems to be be more applicable to monsters than to "base" races. Sure it says a human should be 2 HD. Through simply RP xp alone, most humans would reach at least 2nd level in their lifetimes. (Setting dependant, most lifespans in medieval rarely exceeded 40 years) Thats not to say ALL would, or that they take anything other than a level in commoner. (Which is about half as weak as the benifit they get from having 1 Humanoid HD)

Dwarves having 3HD? Big deal, the dwarf race is the most "powerful" of the base races anyway. It "evens out" so to speak.

And as for Gargillian, maybe a Demiurge with Omega Effect tried to kill him once, thus explaining why his HD are off.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

Hmm, are you referring to Table 1-3, Expanded Size? That lists Medium creatures should have a minimum of 2 hit dice, and a maximum of three. So humans would naturally have the maximum? I'm slightly wary of that value, as most creatures with only class levels are understood to have a single hit die that is dropped when they gain a class level.

Humans would have 3 HD. Their average height (in feet) divided by 2.

EDIT: Note that, if humans have a base 3 hit dice, Gargillian should have 3,072 hit dice, not 3,036.

He got energy drained.

Hmm, I may come back to this in the near future then, for an epic monster I'm working on.

Okay, happy to help.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi dante mate!

On that note...legendary creatures should have divinity, albeit they would not be overtly powerful, as all outsiders with such and such hit dice are considered to have such and such divine templates. So that would imply animal cults.

The reason I didn't go with this idea is because I see Legendary Animals more as the Steeds and Companions of the gods, rather than being worshipped in their own right.

Should Sleipnir be worshipped, I'm not so sure. Not saying he couldn't, but its not something I would want to instigate as standard.

This concept has brought me much joy, though it has made me wonder if the Legendary Companion, Legendary Steed, ect. divine abilities might be a tad overpowered.

I think its tricky, but necessary to have those powers at that level.

I don't think boosting a steed (for example) is as much of a boost as boosting the deity itself.

Mayhaps they should be cosmic, rather than divine?

Are you mayhaps'ing me again!

Or perhaps a ruling stating that such a companion or steed can be no more powerful than a deities divine avatar and state that such a companion, though ultimately free-willed, counts against the deity's total divine avatars?

I dunno, you are 'crossing the streams' there. Very few legendary animals are going to be anywhere near an Avatar of even a Demigod in terms of power.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I think he's taking the height (in feet) and dividing by 2. Then modify by build; dwarves would start at 2 (half of 4 feet tall) but would get boosted to 3 because they are stocky. If you are 8 feet tall (implying 4 HD) you aren't medium; you're large.

This is one of those cool rules that ultimately gets dropped because it conflicts with the WotC expectations.

I think Hit Dice by mass for natural creatures is a very good idea (although I would say that).

I think it makes the average humans a bit more robust as well.

Not to mention monster design becomes a cinch.

Like the wealth = level cubed x 100 gp rule. Or the CR = ECL convention.

Simple, but, going by the latest evidence, unbalanced. Also I really don't like promoting the laundry list style play, with regards epic items.

 

[Fieari]

Statting up some more dragon gods for fun.

I assume Typhon (mentioned in the epic dragon intro) is the Great, Great, Great Wyrm Timber Dragon that you had planned?

However, I found an interesting little thing. I would presuppose that Yggdrasil, if not merely an artifact, would be an Elder God in its own right, seeing as a skyfather went to get knowledge from it (I would think that it would have to be a higher rank for this, you see).

I wanted to see what age category a Timer Dragon would have to be to have been one of the first life forms on the planet earth, from the Triassic era. By the age category chart, an epic dragon would need to have 24 age categories, exactly, to be this old.

24 epic dragon age categories, by coincidence, happens to be the threshold for Elder Gods, exactly.

Timber Dragons look like trees...

It's a bit more work to add 12 age categories than to add a mere two, but I'm working on it. It even holds that Yggdrasil, as an Elder God, is sleeping (imprisoned, locked away, according to your cosmology), and thus appears to simply be a tree. The sheer collusion of all these things working together makes me happy.

Say it with me! Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Wyrm Timber Dragon! Yggdrasil!

 

[paradox42]

Say it with me! Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Wyrm Timber Dragon! Yggdrasil!

That... will be a very interesting entry in the wiki.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Like the wealth = level cubed x 100 gp rule. Or the CR = ECL convention.

Simple, but, going by the latest evidence, unbalanced. Also I really don't like promoting the laundry list style play, with regards epic items.

The level cubed x 100 wealth rule was unbalanced? But you've replaced it with a rule that gives more money below level 100. The level squared x 10,000 rule. Although I can see why 4 items tops is easier to handle.

Unless you mean the CR = ECL convention. Sep doesn't like it either. We're trying out something quite close to the 1.5 CR = ECL rule right now. We'll see how it works.

 

[Fieari]

Yggdrasil is done: here

Even comes with runes of knowledge for Odin to gain power from!

 

[Servitor of Wrath]

I wanted to see what age category a Timer Dragon would have to be

Trying to imagine a Great-Great-Great Egg Timer Wyrm.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Yggdrasil looks awesome. I always thought the timber dragon was a tad silly but this one is quite deadly.
Wouldn't it have a bigger HD for being an Elder One?