Implements and recurring damage

[cdrcjsn]

Yeah. The Controllers held redefine the battlefield, but if your allies aren't helping to position themselves and the bad guys around your zones, it won't be as effective as it can be.

 

[The Lone Badger]

I also have a question about the Shield spell - does the increase in AC work against (and stop) the hit that triggered it? Or is it only for if I get attacked again that round?

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, to answer that question, look at the action type of the power.

It says immediate -interrupt- which means that it occurs before the trigger, and has the potential to negate it. Contrast with immediate -reactions-.

So, yes, a Shield spell's bonus can change the result of an attack against you from a hit to a fail.

(Interrupts can -explicitly- negate an attack completely, that's sort of what they're supposed to do)

 

[The Lone Badger]

Ah. neat. I was getting into a recursive loop of "but then it was never triggered, which meant the attack hit, which means it was triggered...". Good to know it's explicitly addressed.

 

[Tai]

The customer support stuff is a nightmare to navigate, but they've defined a damage roll as something that
a) is a roll (as opposed to a static value) and
b) is a direct result of an attack roll.

So the intent is that bonuses to damage apply on the initial damage roll, but not on the start-of-turn damage. If you use flaming sphere, you don't get the bonus on the start-of-turn damage, but you do when you use a standard action to attack with it. Likewise, attacks like Furious Smash don't get bonuses to their damage, because the damage isn't rolled.

Annoyingly, this stuff isn't on their website, it's a response to a CS query someone made. You can find the text of the query and the response (and a lengthy dissection of the rules involved) here.

 

[DracoSuave]

I read their logic.

Page 276 does not indicate that damage rolls are only the result of successful attacks, but only that 'When you hit with an attack, you normally deal damage to your target...' which is a true statement, but isn't actually rules text.

The rules text on Damage Rolls then indicates how to adjudicate them, which is to include all pertinent bonuses to the entirety of the damage roll. Otherwise, no rule exists to adjudicate 'start-of-turn' damage rolls. Common sense says this rule -must- be used to adjudicate it.

 

[Tai]

That may be true, but WotC Customer Services said that it doesn't apply. Personally, I'm sad that it doesn't apply to Furious Smash, but I think it's more balanced this way...

 

[DracoSuave]

It never applied to Furious Smash. No roll, no bonus to damage rolls.

And Customer Service is good for answering simple rules questions, but for higher level technical stuff, they tend to resort to 'We'll ask the devs, you're the DM do your job for yourself' and never get back to you until the devs do errata down the road.

'Some powers add modifiers to attack rolls or damage rolls. These modifiers apply to any roll of the dice, but not to ongoing damage or any nonvariable effects.'

Here's the pertinent rule. 'Any roll of the dice'.

Flaming Sphere's extra start of turn damage is a) not ongoing damage, and b) nonvariable. It -is- a roll of the dice. Therefore modifiers do apply.

 

[Tai]

You can rule it however you like, but the tech support people gave a specific example for Stinking Cloud, which has identical rules with a smaller area, and said that the start-of-turn damage does not get bonuses, because it's not the direct result of an attack.

 

[abyssaldeath]

You can rule it however you like, but the tech support people gave a specific example for Stinking Cloud, which has identical rules with a smaller area, and said that the start-of-turn damage does not get bonuses, because it's not the direct result of an attack.

Customer Service contradicts themselves on a daily basis. You really have to take what they say with a grain of salt. It's your game thought, use whatever ruling is more fun for you and your group.