improving Second Wind (Forked Thread: House Rule: Second Effort)

[CapnZapp]

Forked from: House Rule: Second Effort

I agree that Second Wind is often unused as it is.

Perhaps Second Wind should allow you to regain two healing surges' worth of hit point for the price of only one?

That is, Second Wind requires you to spend a surge as usual, but you regain hp equal to your Bloodied value instead.

This should transform SW from "the healing action you take only when you have no other option" to a seriously relevant choice throughout every combat.

Thoughts? Too powerful? Or simply how it's less useful unless you're bloodied in the first place...?

 

[Pale Jackal]

I was thinking of allowing Second Wind to give +4 to all defenses, rather than +2, especially since I tend to double (or get rid of) certain monster abilities, if I think they're too fiddle-y. A minor change, but nice if you're surrounded.

I'm not sure if I want Second Wind to be as potent as you describe, but a similar option is to allow the 1/2 HP heal as you describe, but still have it cost two healing surges. The problem with Second Wind is the loss of your attack, not the fact that uses surges. Again, I'm not sure if I want Second Wind to be even that potent! But I think it'd see plenty of use as Std. Action: spend 2 surges to heal 1/2 HP.

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't really see the need for a change here.

Think about it. In 1E, 2E, and 3E, the players did not even have an option to self heal.

This is a HUGE ability that players have gained with 4E.

But now, it's suddenly not good enough. It's like the millionaire who is not satisfied that he is wealthy.

Yes, one gives up an attack action. But one gains additional hit points and bonuses to defense. How great is that???

 

[Stalker0]

If you want to playtest it in your game, there's already a magic item that allows you two healing surges on a second wind. give that to a player a try it out.

In my games, second winds are rare but used. I thnk some of the feats based on second wind could be better (for example I think the paragon feat improved second wind is a joke) but the base mechanic I think is okay.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't really see the need for a change here.

Think about it. In 1E, 2E, and 3E, the players did not even have an option to self heal.

This is a HUGE ability that players have gained with 4E.

But now, it's suddenly not good enough. It's like the millionaire who is not satisfied that he is wealthy.

Yes, one gives up an attack action. But one gains additional hit points and bonuses to defense. How great is that???

KD, you of all people advocating not a minmaxer's approach to evaluating a feature?!

In short, whether SW is great compared to previous editions is less relevant than whether it's obsolete compared to Healing Word and other powers...

Cheers!

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm not sure if I want Second Wind to be as potent as you describe, but a similar option is to allow the 1/2 HP heal as you describe, but still have it cost two healing surges. The problem with Second Wind is the loss of your attack, not the fact that uses surges. Again, I'm not sure if I want Second Wind to be even that potent! But I think it'd see plenty of use as Std. Action: spend 2 surges to heal 1/2 HP.

Smart thinking. And you're probably right. You need to spend one standard action, but you do a double heal. The cost is probably better this way.

 

[CapnZapp]

If you want to playtest it in your game, there's already a magic item that allows you two healing surges on a second wind. give that to a player a try it out.

Thanks muchly!

Or rather, I would thank you if could find the item you're having in mind...

 

[daHeadRat]

Thanks muchly!

Or rather, I would thank you if could find the item you're having in mind...

Cloak of the Walking Wounded (AV, pg. 151) is one...not sure if there are others...

 

[77IM]

Allow a character to move their speed as part of the second wind. The problem with second wind is that, if you're not attacking, you might as well go full defense. But a single move action might not be enough to extract yourself from the front lines and hustle to cover.

Heck, I'd say make second wind a minor action, but you can't do it and attack in the same round. Attacks are very powerful in 4e, which causes players to want to attack every round, which can get repetitive. So I think someone who spends a round doing something other than attacking could get a second wind as a side benefit to encourage people to try other stuff (moving into a better position, rescuing a fallen ally, disarming a trap, etc.). The dwarven racial feature becomes the ability to second wind and attack in the same round (still a good feature, but not quite as uber).

-- 77IM

 

[Storminator]

Allow a character to move their speed as part of the second wind. The problem with second wind is that, if you're not attacking, you might as well go full defense. But a single move action might not be enough to extract yourself from the front lines and hustle to cover.

Heck, I'd say make second wind a minor action, but you can't do it and attack in the same round. Attacks are very powerful in 4e, which causes players to want to attack every round, which can get repetitive. So I think someone who spends a round doing something other than attacking could get a second wind as a side benefit to encourage people to try other stuff (moving into a better position, rescuing a fallen ally, disarming a trap, etc.). The dwarven racial feature becomes the ability to second wind and attack in the same round (still a good feature, but not quite as uber).

-- 77IM

What happens when someone else triggers your second wind with a heal check? Do you get the move action?

My cleric tends to trigger other character's second wind when he's out of heals. I'd rather get the rogue back up than attack myself, so it's a pretty efficient use of actions.

PS