Insanely high powered entities from my storyline/ Gods and Monsters update

Deinos

First Post
When I first saw this guy my brain promptly shut down and departed the building. I'm pretty sure that that is the intended effect. It somewhat inspired me to begin actually attempting to make builds for IH campaigns. Not that such an individual would really be something they'd be able to fight, or conceive of fighting but hey, I figured, he's gotta have weaknesses.
1. Expression of Power. Wouldn't it be better to also note that he has Omnispective here, as "Miss chances due to concealment... work properly" is later contradicted by Omnispective? Specifically what made me go "ZOMG" and run away initially was the bit that it ignores almost all forms of defenses other than miss chances (but he ignores them anyway), but upon re-reading I noticed that as this is an Effect ability, it seems like its ability to bypass defenses does not extend to Words of Chaos.
2. As soon as he enters Creation, assuming his Storm is up, everything in the universe takes five million points of permanent damage per round with no immunity possible. This is EXTREMELY hilarious; however, the fact that he can enter a binary state of 0 = "I am nowhere but can see all things" and 1 = "Everything ever takes five million permanent damage and is permanently destroyed, no immunity possible," it seems somewhat problematic that there is no particular way, not even for, say, an avatar, guardian or even manifestation of the Supreme Being (all of which seem to be more powerful than him, right?) to actually stop him from destroying everything, forever. Would walls or spheres of force and prismatic spheres block it, since they can take infinite damage?
3. IF you are immune to natural and magical effects, what is left? Doesn't that mean that he could not actually defeat or harm himself (were he to face his own evil twin) and that an avatar or manifestation of the Supreme Being could not harm or affect him?
 

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When I first saw this guy my brain promptly shut down and departed the building. I'm pretty sure that that is the intended effect. It somewhat inspired me to begin actually attempting to make builds for IH campaigns. Not that such an individual would really be something they'd be able to fight, or conceive of fighting but hey, I figured, he's gotta have weaknesses.
1. Expression of Power. Wouldn't it be better to also note that he has Omnispective here, as "Miss chances due to concealment... work properly" is later contradicted by Omnispective? Specifically what made me go "ZOMG" and run away initially was the bit that it ignores almost all forms of defenses other than miss chances (but he ignores them anyway), but upon re-reading I noticed that as this is an Effect ability, it seems like its ability to bypass defenses does not extend to Words of Chaos.
2. As soon as he enters Creation, assuming his Storm is up, everything in the universe takes five million points of permanent damage per round with no immunity possible. This is EXTREMELY hilarious; however, the fact that he can enter a binary state of 0 = "I am nowhere but can see all things" and 1 = "Everything ever takes five million permanent damage and is permanently destroyed, no immunity possible," it seems somewhat problematic that there is no particular way, not even for, say, an avatar, guardian or even manifestation of the Supreme Being (all of which seem to be more powerful than him, right?) to actually stop him from destroying everything, forever. Would walls or spheres of force and prismatic spheres block it, since they can take infinite damage?
3. IF you are immune to natural and magical effects, what is left? Doesn't that mean that he could not actually defeat or harm himself (were he to face his own evil twin) and that an avatar or manifestation of the Supreme Being could not harm or affect him?

Hi Deinos!

So, Expression of Power can be negated via AC, Concealment, etc. Just not Abilities that block damage. So Thelemic Damage Induction, Damage Reduction, Sophism, Etc. fail, however a high AC or 95% concealment for example would work properly.

Omnispective would indeed wipe the floor with the universe, at least for a moment. I'll get more on that later.

I assume you're talking about Reim's ability to step between dimensions. The thing about that is, and I think it states it, is that he cannot affect anything while he does so. So his storm, his Expression of Power, and all other abilities that could potentially affect anything at all whatsoever, fail.

As for why he doesn't blow up the universe. It's the concept of MAD, mutually assured destruction. Reim is also an Aspect, that is an aspect of God, like an aspect of the Supreme Being, so by proxy he wouldn't want to destroy the universe any more than you would like to shoot yourself in the head.

A bit of back story of my world: The whole of Existence, that is every universe period, has been destroyed 7 times. It is currently the 8th Existence. In each Existence, a rogue element or Akashic Aspect that wasn't supposed to exist, ends up causing a cascade failure in the Existence and causes Thychen (God) to restart it in a new form. In the 4th Existence, an Existence of earth, air, water, and fire with all other elements and powers being derivatives of those base elements (ie, evocation magic is related to fire, healing is related to earth and water, etc.) Reim destroyed existence when he was created. Before Reim, darkness was simply the absence of energy. The Creator of the Creator God (Anti-thychen, or as my PCs call him: Dennis) is in fact the true Supreme Being, he allows Thychen to build the universe in whatever way he sees fit but adds uncertainty to it in order for Thychen to grow both as a creator, and to grow a more complex Existence.

When Reim appeared, he used the Word of Chaos "Sin" to obliterate the existence. As Thychen is God, or at least the only God people need to really worry about, he cannot simply dismiss a new concept once added to his mind. I make his creation of Existence both a physical act on Thychen's part, and also one shaped by his memories and dreams. So because he knows of Reim, if he deletes Reim, then Reim will reappear somewhere at sometime and ruin it again if he just tries to leave him out. So instead he makes Reim another Aspect, and incorporates it into the new existence. He does however seal the more devastating abilities to some degree. Hence "Sin Ku Ry Ep Su" The Word and the Seals.

So back onto my MAD concept, basically if he was to storm existence, there are an infinite amount of Time Lords, each with a stake in Existence and probably similar powers to Reim (as in universe spanning auras of Your F___ed) that If Reim attempted it, all beings who could see him would see him doing this and obliterate him instantly.

Abrogate can target any power, regardless of level (ie. divine or omnific, it doesn't matter.) with the exception of Metempric abilities, but that is really only in my campaign setting that I make Metempric abilities exempt.

So what does that leave you with? One round of messing things up, followed by Reim having all of his powers negated with no save by a swarm of pissed, injured, Time and High Lords, Neutronium Golems, the other Aspects, everything in the Pleroma, and possibly God himself.

Also I make when things say "Your ___ extends to the edge of creation" only apply to the limits of what our actual universe's estimated size is (roughly 46 Billion Light Years) rounded up to 50 Billion Light Years. With the exception of Cosmic Consciousness. The reason for this is because first off, Ascention states that your Aura reaches to the edge of the universe, not the multiverse, also the idea of the Pleroma, the universe in which universes (Time Lords) reside, shouldn't have every random thing exerting influence over the entirety of something they, frankly, shouldn't be able to even fully comprehend. Only the Supreme Being, the Omega, the Lipika, and the Akashic should have comprehension of the Pleroma, Kuvatchim, and the Akashic Records in their entirety (I have a Metempric Ability: 'Akashic Presence' that extends your Aura to the edge of Existence).

Natural effects refers to lava, fire, drowning, etc. Not being punched in the head. Magical effects refers to mundane magical powers, as in from vanilla flavored crappy ass sorcerers and wizards. Not from epic spells or spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, divine abilities, or alter reality. That's what Dead Zone is for.

As for walls of force, sheer divine damage instantly destroys magical barriers. Look at 'Divine Effect' Page 125 IH Ascention for confirmation.

Lastly, I actually put my party in situations where they can die forever all the time, but I reward them justly. I have used Reim as a boss before, before IH, but now that I have IH, I plan on using him as a major boss, not even the last boss, in my big campaign. Mwa ha ha...

IH is like chess. You have to learn the pieces, and how to use them properly. Once you know how to use the tools, it becomes alot more feasible playability wise.

Hope that clears it up.
 
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Deinos

First Post
The thing about that is, and I think it states it, is that he cannot affect anything while he does so.

Hence why I said its a binary state. There doesn't seem to be a way to stop him from blowing up a universe. Its a combination of cloaking device and invincibility mode, but that there's no transition or intermediary stage that allows you to stop it.

As for why he doesn't blow up the universe. It's the concept of MAD, mutually assured destruction.

Let me rephrase that. Well, basically my point is: he's a very, very, very (etc.) powerful being, of course, by intent. Still. Were he to be in mortal conflict with a given dimension, reality, or whatever, there seems to be absolutely no way to keep him from completely obliterating everything (or rather, something like ninety nine point nine nine nine (on to almost forever) in those *portions* of the universe he dislikes. I kind of think that's a problem.

He's a powerful figure, which is okay, but there's not even (apparently) any way for a more powerful figure -- were he to be in violent conflict with someone, as the writeup doesn't really give much explanation as to what he wants -- to keep him from destroying *every part of the universe that matters to his enemies in the storyline.*

That is what I feel the problem is. Not that he's powerful and beyond violent opposition (we know that there is no such thing in IH) but that in any such violent opposition, at any point that he is not currently cloaked, he can also nuke all your planets, all your stars, all your worshipers, and so forth, and the only way to prevent this is to threaten him into not doing it.

There is MAD, but presumably there is an area where him conflicting with small amounts of demiurges or time lords won't draw infinite amounts of antagonism towards him.

I think there should, perhaps, be some sort of grey area where, say, it takes one round for him to activate any of his offensive abilities after he decloaks, or something. He would otherwise be able to inevitably defeat any combination of foes that cannot travel across billions of light years (or whatever) and kill him in one round, a million permanent hit points at a time -- somewhat of a petty concern at this scale, but this is more problematic than Indissoluble, as it also permits him to make a perfect hit and run combo.


(I have a Metempric Ability: 'Akashic Presence' that extends your Aura to the edge of Existence).

That's what I was mainly asking, as I wasn't sure whether "Creation" was the same thing as "Universe."

So he can only blow up one universe at a time. That's not so bad.

This is, instantly, the only RPG genre where I can say that.

So presumably, Omnipresent, would still only allow you to have your divine aura touch one plane at a time, right? They're not really connected to each other by space, afterall. Sniping one plane of existence at a time is a bit easier to manage than sniping all planes of existence (of his enemies).

Natural effects refers to lava, fire, drowning, etc. Not being punched in the head.

Ah okay.

I plan on using him as a major boss, not even the last boss, in my big campaign. Mwa ha ha...

That's a lot of permanent oblivion HP to be down before the last boss...
 


Hence why I said its a binary state. There doesn't seem to be a way to stop him from blowing up a universe. Its a combination of cloaking device and invincibility mode, but that there's no transition or intermediary stage that allows you to stop it...


..Let me rephrase that. Well, basically my point is: he's a very, very, very (etc.) powerful being, of course, by intent. Still. Were he to be in mortal conflict with a given dimension, reality, or whatever, there seems to be absolutely no way to keep him from completely obliterating everything (or rather, something like ninety nine point nine nine nine (on to almost forever) in those *portions* of the universe he dislikes. I kind of think that's a problem...

He's a powerful figure, which is okay, but there's not even (apparently) any way for a more powerful figure -- were he to be in violent conflict with someone, as the writeup doesn't really give much explanation as to what he wants -- to keep him from destroying *every part of the universe that matters to his enemies in the storyline.*

That is what I feel the problem is. Not that he's powerful and beyond violent opposition (we know that there is no such thing in IH) but that in any such violent opposition, at any point that he is not currently cloaked, he can also nuke all your planets, all your stars, all your worshipers, and so forth, and the only way to prevent this is to threaten him into not doing it.

There is MAD, but presumably there is an area where him conflicting with small amounts of demiurges or time lords won't draw infinite amounts of antagonism towards him.

I think there should, perhaps, be some sort of grey area where, say, it takes one round for him to activate any of his offensive abilities after he decloaks, or something. He would otherwise be able to inevitably defeat any combination of foes that cannot travel across billions of light years (or whatever) and kill him in one round, a million permanent hit points at a time -- somewhat of a petty concern at this scale, but this is more problematic than Indissoluble, as it also permits him to make a perfect hit and run combo.

Frankly, it would allow him to have a hit and run combo that is basically overpowered as all Hell and back.

Partially though, that is his point and the point of Metempric abilities. I deliberately designed them to be grossly powerful, things that only the absolute most powerful beings should have. Or the most powerful beings should attempt to take on. Mind you, Reim is supposed to be one of the most powerful beings period, and one of the more powerful of the 12 Aspects, but his powers actually pale sadly in comparison to some of the other beings I've designed.

Reim is supposed to be challenging and annoying to defeat, but not impossible. Others are meant to be roughly impossible to fight even.

Wait until I post any of the Guardians, or Thychen himself... you'll crap yourself.


That's what I was mainly asking, as I wasn't sure whether "Creation" was the same thing as "Universe."
Easy confusion, they seem interchangeable at times. Honestly this is how I deduce it: I say 'Creation' is what a Time Lord, High Lord, Etc., creates when he becomes such a being. As each one represents the manifestation of a whole universe, or universes, I make that the 'Creation', where as 'Existence' would apply to the entirety of everything, all Universes, Planes, the Mutiverse, Akashic Library, Kuvatchim, etc.


So he can only blow up one universe at a time. That's not so bad.
Seriously, if he could just pee-pee slap the entirety of existence in a single round, the Supreme Being be damned, as only a Stage 5 High Lord, that would be lame, lopsided, and retarded.

This is, instantly, the only RPG genre where I can say that.

Lol, that's what draws me into IH.

The insane mathematics involved, and the stacking crazy universe obliterating powers, the over-the-top but reasonable stats, etc. All of it make me feel like these are what the DnD Gods statted out should have been, not some barely divine things with cheat powers, but a real, step by step process to create something truly unique and staggeringly powerful.

It's awesome. Thanks again Krusty.

So presumably, Omnipresent, would still only allow you to have your divine aura touch one plane at a time, right? They're not really connected to each other by space, afterall. Sniping one plane of existence at a time is a bit easier to manage than sniping all planes of existence (of his enemies).

I make a 'Universe' apply to all planes of existence in a given Time Lord. As only a First One Sidereal is supposed to represent a fully fledged plane, and a Demiurge is supposed to represent an incomplete or baby Time Lord. To me, at least, a single plane of existence is by far too small to represent a universe, and at this level things should be insta-pwning whole universes.

It takes CRAP TONNES of Quintessence, like far more than is reasonable to get to High Lord status.

That's a lot of permanent oblivion HP to be down before the last boss...

Damn right, go big or go home I say in this type of setting.

I make my party go through some stupid things and fight tings they have no business even seeing. At this point, almost my whole party except 2 people have wiped. The others are making replacements, but this type of thing is no easy task.
 
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Deinos

First Post
Partially though, that is his point and the point of Metempric abilities. I deliberately designed them to be grossly powerful, things that only the absolute most powerful beings should have.

But like... when I think "what's stronger than a demiurge and stronger than a time lord ultimate master of darkness," I don't really think of the ultimate weedy hit and run guy, and the notion of a badasser-than-a-time-lord foe whose #1 challenge lies in that he can do across-the-universe snipings that you literally can't counter (you can potentially defeat him, but there is no way to counter him exploding your planets as far as I can tell) and need to be able to kill him in one round to keep him from doing them infinity times, doesn't really seem to fit. Like, you'd think that'd be an adaptation to skirmishing with more powerful enemies, but, assuming you only let PCs gain one level at a time like normal, you are probably not going to see him used against higher level PCs.

Now granted, I somewhat consider that if he's the embodiment of darkness, that could suggest that he's an akashic-level rogue/scout, in terms of what his strengths and weaknesses are.


Reim is supposed to be challenging and annoying to defeat, but not impossible. Others are meant to be roughly impossible to fight even.

There's also the problem of that if he goes down, he goes down in one round or not at all. A guy who goes down in one round is probably not going to be remembered as an exciting boss battle.

Wait until I post any of the Guardians, or Thychen himself... you'll crap yourself.

This is my principle problem with Reim; you can't actually go higher than "guy who can destroy your home galaxy -- regardless of what you do, what strategy you pick, or how many stitched together time lords you are made of" is the problem, there is nowhere to grow after this point.

After a "galaxy/universe destroyed, no save, nothing can even conceivably counter or prevent this"-class opponent is used, even if you somehow have a coherent campaign left, attempting to use anything of his power level or higher is just going to come off as STUPID. "Oh gee, this one can also destroy the universe. Ho hum."

Okay, I figured out ONE way to defend your galaxy against Reim -- that silly ability that lets you cause anyone you kill to have never existed. I'm not exactly a fan of that ability -- the Death capstone power seeming to erase your ability to create undead (by killing people at least) is extremely problematic, and makes one wonder if you can still gain xp, qp, etc through mortal combat, and makes it rather difficult to construct a coherent narrative. Still, its -a- way, although the fact that if Reim is antagonistic enough to want someone's worshiper base dead (presumably, a conglomerate of sentient universes fighting against other sentient universes isn't going to feel bad about wasting a single galaxy), that's still pretty binary of a foe.

So the options are basically,

1. He never shows up. (What's the point?)
2. He hangs out, but doesn't fight. (Acceptable)
3. He fights, but its not a to the death sort of thing. His every attack saps a million+ permanent HP, your PCs will be enormously crippled, at best, for the rest of the campaign. (I can't see any point to this at all)
4. He fights in serious combat, but your galaxy/solar system/etc is blowed up, regardless of the outcome. This is actually unavoidable, unless he wants to kill another sentient universe but not its contents (er, what?) (All campaign setting elements that don't have a million HP to spare are now permanently removed. Campaign is essentially unrecoverable at this point)
4 The main conceivable way to use him in a fight and defeat him: the party sends either one, or a single avatar or aspect each (or a strike team, or whatever) across time and space to the exact six second window in which he is ending the universe, making sure they all have the retcon-death power.

They would likely need some manner of ability (like deathless frenzy or death's door or whatever) that would let them survive past -10 temporarily, and they would most definitely be going to their deaths, as they would have millions of perma-oblivion HP damage about to catch up with them. If if they die, everything dies.

As they each unleash their most powerful and most numerous attacks, hoping that it will be enough, they may very well notice that at that instant, everyone, and everything, in the galaxy that they care about, is being destroyed. It would be a very long round. They know the only way their deaths can have meaning is to finish him in that round and hope its enough.

This is actually rather epic.

If they win, though, no one will actually notice, or remember. Its not clear if they will suddenly retcon the timeline and explode from the millions of deferred damage (with no one ever knowing why), or if they will be fine (assuming the avatar strike team wasn't just created for this singular sacrifice) and completely ignorant of the battle that Didn't Actually Happen.

At this point, option #1 happens -- he never actually showed up.

To me, at least, a single plane of existence is by far too small to represent a universe, and at this level things should be insta-pwning whole universes.

It sort of makes it hard to have any sort of remotely coherent campaign when there is no way to keep your universe from being pwned.
 

Now granted, I somewhat consider that if he's the embodiment of darkness, that could suggest that he's an akashic-level rogue/scout, in terms of what his strengths and weaknesses are.

Actually when I think of darkness I think of thieves in the night and things that wish to be hidden. Monsters in the darkness are scary because of the fear of the unknown.


There's also the problem of that if he goes down, he goes down in one round or not at all. A guy who goes down in one round is probably not going to be remembered as an exciting boss battle.

This is my principle problem with Reim; you can't actually go higher than "guy who can destroy your home galaxy -- regardless of what you do, what strategy you pick, or how many stitched together time lords you are made of" is the problem, there is nowhere to grow after this point.

After a "galaxy/universe destroyed, no save, nothing can even conceivably counter or prevent this"-class opponent is used, even if you somehow have a coherent campaign left, attempting to use anything of his power level or higher is just going to come off as STUPID. "Oh gee, this one can also destroy the universe. Ho hum."

Ah that's where you'd be very mistaken. The vast majority of my campaign is done in the stars, on many worlds, in many dimensions. I make my PCs play with the harpstrings of reality itself, I try to make them become the most epic and powerful things they can conceive. Insinuating that my creations are stupid, simply because one has a limited viewpoint is rather ironic.

Okay, I figured out ONE way to defend your galaxy against Reim -- that silly ability that lets you cause anyone you kill to have never existed. I'm not exactly a fan of that ability -- the Death capstone power seeming to erase your ability to create undead (by killing people at least) is extremely problematic, and makes one wonder if you can still gain xp, qp, etc through mortal combat, and makes it rather difficult to construct a coherent narrative. Still, its -a- way, although the fact that if Reim is antagonistic enough to want someone's worshiper base dead (presumably, a conglomerate of sentient universes fighting against other sentient universes isn't going to feel bad about wasting a single galaxy), that's still pretty binary of a foe.

So the options are basically,

1. He never shows up. (What's the point?)
2. He hangs out, but doesn't fight. (Acceptable)
3. He fights, but its not a to the death sort of thing. His every attack saps a million+ permanent HP, your PCs will be enormously crippled, at best, for the rest of the campaign. (I can't see any point to this at all)
4. He fights in serious combat, but your galaxy/solar system/etc is blowed up, regardless of the outcome. This is actually unavoidable, unless he wants to kill another sentient universe but not its contents (er, what?) (All campaign setting elements that don't have a million HP to spare are now permanently removed. Campaign is essentially unrecoverable at this point)
4 The main conceivable way to use him in a fight and defeat him: the party sends either one, or a single avatar or aspect each (or a strike team, or whatever) across time and space to the exact six second window in which he is ending the universe, making sure they all have the retcon-death power.

They would likely need some manner of ability (like deathless frenzy or death's door or whatever) that would let them survive past -10 temporarily, and they would most definitely be going to their deaths, as they would have millions of perma-oblivion HP damage about to catch up with them. If if they die, everything dies.

As they each unleash their most powerful and most numerous attacks, hoping that it will be enough, they may very well notice that at that instant, everyone, and everything, in the galaxy that they care about, is being destroyed. It would be a very long round. They know the only way their deaths can have meaning is to finish him in that round and hope its enough.

This is actually rather epic.

I agree that that would be really the only way if this were still in the land of normal DnD, but normal DnD is only a stepping stone for IH. IH is a system unto itself, you aren't really playing 3.5 at this point as much as you're using 3.5 game mechanics and nothing else. If you run an IH campaign, and use it the way it's supposed to be used, levels become less and less useful. Hence why Deities gain 'Integrated Class Features'. You're character becomes based around the idea of what kind of God he is (a powerful god of flames for instance), not how bad ass of a Ranger he is. Though his Ranger levels may still be part of his make up and who he is, and even what feats he took, etc. Ultimately it becomes more like a game of chess, taking abilities to counter abilities, and learning how to circumvent seemingly unstoppable enemies.

If they win, though, no one will actually notice, or remember. Its not clear if they will suddenly retcon the timeline and explode from the millions of deferred damage (with no one ever knowing why), or if they will be fine (assuming the avatar strike team wasn't just created for this singular sacrifice) and completely ignorant of the battle that Didn't Actually Happen.

At this point, option [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1"]#1 [/URL]happens -- he never actually showed up.



It sort of makes it hard to have any sort of remotely coherent campaign when there is no way to keep your universe from being pwned.


Ah! I see what the issue is. You're overlooking a major point: Permanent damage can be reversed by a simple wish or miracle spell, healing 1 hp per caster level.

Now a Time Lord could stack the spell by simply breaking it into it's components and casting it via it's base Spellcraft DC. Any time lord should be able to hit somewhere in the neighborhood of a 1200 (or so, not sure off the top of my head) DC for it's vanilla base check. Wish would have a base DC of 19 (10 plus lvl of spell) so 1200 / 19 = 63.-- so a Time lord would be able to heal 63,000 permanent damage every round with a single casting.

Avinion (our resident Time Lord) has 220 Automatic Metamagic Capacity feats, this gives him 220 uses of Alter reality in a single round. As he has Transtemporal, this allows him to use 3 rounds of actions for every round, meaning 660 uses of Alter Reality. This means that Avinion can heal roughly 41,580,000 points of permanent damage every round. Mind you this is a being that only has 1/5th Riem's power, none of his Metempiric powers, and doesn't even have the healing domain.

A Demigod of healing can cure Permanent Damage with any parlor trick healing spell. Permanent effects aren't as daunting as one may think. Basically all they do is make it so you can't regenerate through their damage.

It doesn't seem that you are getting the main points to Reim:

1) Reim is an Aspect of God, so why would he destroy the multiverse assuming he had the capacity to, in the first place?

2) Reim can be Abrogated, multiple Abrogates stack, meaning his dreaded permanent damage power, so scary, becomes useless.

3) The Supreme Being, and other Time Lords wouldn't allow him to destroy the multiverse.

I have 12 Aspects, there is an Aspect of Light as well.

If you don't like his powers, or want to change them for your campaign be my guest, but put bluntly, I have yet to see your work, I've yet to see a High Lord, or a Time Lord created by you.

If you think you can do better, then let's see it, otherwise the flaws and limitations you've pointed out I've already overcome, as has my party to a smaller degree. What level do you expect a party to go after Reim at? Lvl 2?

If you can't see past your own limited view, then you're simply wasting my time.
 
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Deinos

First Post
Insinuating that my creations are stupid, simply because one has a limited viewpoint is rather ironic.

I'm not saying your creations are stupid, I'm saying that its going to seem stupid if every monster can destroy the entire galaxy without a way to avoid this. You can leave yourself more room to expand if you don't have the earliest creature able to destroy the universe with it being impossible to counter.


Hence why Deities gain 'Integrated Class Features'.

That's for outsider hit dice guys, not classed conventional PC types.


Ah! I see what the issue is. You're overlooking a major point: Permanent damage can be reversed by a simple wish or miracle spell, healing 1 hp per caster level.

So wait, I thought the point of Oblivion was that its DOUBLE EXTRA permanent damage that can't be reversed, as I thought there's a lower level divine power that gives permanent damage. Is it just omnific level for the permanent spells? Being able to spam summon monster for infinity times is entertaining.

Mind you this is a being that only has 1/5th Riem's power, none of his Metempiric powers, and doesn't even have the healing domain.

True. Though I thought oblivion was double-permanent damage that can't even be healed the way permanent HP damage is.


1) Reim is an Aspect of God, so why would he destroy the multiverse assuming he had the capacity to, in the first place?

That's why I reduced it to galaxy. As in, Reim and most of his enemies are universes, destroying an enemy's galaxy in mortal combat (and with it all their followers, etc) seems to be a rather restrained combat tactic by comparison. To put it into perspective, Earth has about six billion mortals on it, and hence worship points. Killing a Time Lord murders an entire universe anyway (and he seems mainly intended for externals to fight), so it seems logical and expected that if you can, say, wipe out trillions of the enemy's worshipers by blowing up a few solar systems, you would (as exterminating trillions of mortals still doesn't really compare to blowing up the, what, billions of galaxies each universe contains by killing a Time Lord?). A monstrous act to humans, an irrelevance equivalent to kicking an enemy's shins in to a Time Lord willing to engage in to-the-death combat against another Time Lord.

Unless, I guess, its an "unoccupied" Time Lord. I have yet to see a Time Lord that actually has anything in it.

2) Reim can be Abrogated, multiple Abrogates stack, meaning his dreaded permanent damage power, so scary, becomes useless.

Hmmm, they do? Sort of makes it so its a little too easy for armies of sidereals to mob anything higher... but you made it so Expression of Power can't be Abrogated, and there is no way (apparently) to stop him from destroying your home galaxy. If he wants to, which he probably does, if he is engaged in external vs external combat.

Expression of Power: Treated as an Omnific-level Effect power, replaces melee and ranged attacks, avoids all mundane or magical defenses, not subject to negation though Learned Ability Immunity, Thelemic Damage Induction, Invincibility, Sophism, or similar damage blocking powers, and cannot be Abrogated or otherwise removed.

3) The Supreme Being, and other Time Lords wouldn't allow him to destroy the multiverse.

That's why I changed galaxy instead of universe. Actually, nearly every interstellar sci fi ever, like the Star Wars movies, would work as a "mere" interplanetary sci fi setting.

I have yet to see your work, I've yet to see a High Lord, or a Time Lord created by you.

I don't need to create a High Lord or Time Lord to point out that the ability to destroy the content's of someone's galaxy, with no potential, to counter or be immune to this, even by Billgrammaton, the Billion Universe Time Lord (who has, for whatever reason, a weird obsession for not letting the irrelevant mortal specks in even one of his galaxy-cells be exterminated every time he must engage in mortal combat with another time lord)... other than by communicating his power level to any potential opponent and intimidating or persuading them not to do it.

Normally, while basically any Omnipresent external with (Anything) Storm can wipe out all life within a universe (or, only within those portions of the universe which are useful to his enemies; as you "only" need 166,666 or so Earths to provide all the worship points to completely provide the worship points a basic Time Lord needs), there are a number of ways to stop this from happening; you can see it coming and attack him before he decides to activate it and shape it. Alternately, you can time travel back to before he destroys it. Throw in Abrogate in there anywhere.

Unfortunately, none of that works against Reim, as his "nuke all your worshipers" power can never be Abrogated or be immunized against, and when he's in invincibility-invisibility mode, he cannot be detected, predicted, or engaged. The very, very, very best case scenario is that you engage him the instant he decloaks, but by then, he can annihilate your home galaxy (remember, I'm not saying he can or will take on the multiverse, I'm saying he can selectively disintegrate all portions of the galaxy that are relevant to his enemy's power level) on the very first round that he decloaks.

as has my party to a smaller degree. What level do you expect a party to go after Reim at? Lvl 2?

Be honest: when you create a character that has, for example, damage reduction and universe-spanning AoE of "one million," do you honestly go, "Gee, I fully want, and intend, that if he is fought at all, he will be killed in one round and Rectify'd out of existence so that no one will ever know or care or even be capable of caring that he once was?" I don't even know why you'd spend so much time with that as the intent, and so I conclude that that is not the intent. You really don't need stats for an antagonist that will be killed in one round and forgotten (not figuratively, but literally), that's more of a simple skill challenge type thing.

I suppose if you interpret Abrogate as stacking infinitely... well, Reim's almost ludicrously easy (for his scale), the sidereal sub-cohorts of the demiurge I'm working on could easily obliterate him or any lone Time/High Lord (and I have yet to see a Time or High Lord that has made use of any of that space inside them, not to mention that by definition a Time/High Lord lacks sidereals). I say that not because my god can beat up your god, but that its a really unsporting assumption, and that if the intent is that Reim will be fought by being Abrogated into helplessness and annihilated by a swarm of transmortal First Ones who have been set up to attack him the instant he emerges.

Now, the actual setup of that one-round-gank-by-sidereals could be interesting, involving various future-seers going "Hm, there isn't a future past that point, odd" and time travellers scouting out ahead of time and of course the actual discussion with the First One hit squad and what not. Them philosophizing about how "If we fail, there won't be an us, and if we succeed, nobody will know or care" could be interesting, but still.

Ergo, I criticize certain aspects of Reim (namely the moment he decloaks, that he may destroy all of target universe that is relevant to his enemy's power level, which will in all likelihood be less than 1/1000th of the universe, let alone the multiverse) but I do so on the basis that the only way to defeat him in a violent confrontation (which I assume is what he's there for) without losing all your followers, planets, and what not at least appears to be to defeat him in the most boring, unsporting, and forgettable fashion possible (no one will be aware there ever was a Reim, or all your followers will be dead).

Now, if the Akashic Aspect of Darkness is intended to be a sporting, chivalrous fellow who challenges rival universes to one on one to duels that are not to the death and doesn't stoop to underhanded tricks like "blow up all the target's worshipers the instant he decloaks" and basically is a really cool dude, disregard all of what I have said. He has (if I understood your fluff right) already killed a few universes a couple times until the Supreme Being decided it'd be less problematic to hire him, so I don't think he has any scruples about fighting dirty.

None of this was intended to offend, to be hostile or be insensitive, and I am sorry that it came off that way; I say all this under the assumption that if people use Reim, you want him, with all the effort gone into him, to be an actually memorable boss fight, not a literally forgotten pest-monster that will be steamrolled in a single round and forgetten by everyone forever.

The only thing I will say that is intended to be (slightly) antagonistic is, what is so special about Time Lords that you can't comment on them unless you have made one? A Time Lord takes a lot of time to make, true, but fully statting out, say, Shiggurath, the First One of the Chaotic Evil Spirit Plane who has, apparently, 666 Elder Ones, would take ludicrously more effort. For that matter, I'm 99% sure statting out a stage 1 demiurge and their cohorts, sub-cohorts, avatars, aspects, and so on would take more effort than just statting out a Time Lord. Time Lords are actually, potentially, the quickest kind of immortal being to stat out.

If you can't see past your own limited view, then you're simply wasting my time.

My view isn't limited (any moreso than anyone else's), I just feel that even in a storyline feeling Externals, there should be ways to counter them exploding arbitrary amounts of planets, etc.
 

You're right about the comment on the making of Time Lords, I haven't seen many people actually play a High Cosmic campaign and if one plays it out organically certain things make more sense for campaign playability as you go through it.

One thing that battles like what we were just speaking of does though, is it allows for teamwork on your party's part that is really rewarding to the PCs. For example, my main group is a party of First Ones. They recently took on Death, they couldn't fight him at first the way they usually handle things (Abrogate seemingly biggest power and fire strongest attack at it) and they were forced to use tactics. One of them is a student from the Akashic Library, she has as one of her Artifacts a unique ability to have knowlege of almost everything. She used it to figure out what Death's weakness was or the reason why they couldn't affect him. Once they figured that out, they were able to circumvent that, peel away his defense layers, and blow him to bits. It was actually really awesome.

Take into consideration too, that some of the Metempric powers I make are the way they are because that was the way the abilities were made before I ever knew about IH. Actoshen, the Courage Aspect for example was a PC at one point. The Aspects and the entirety of what I've posted, the Chaos Language, the Guardians, Thychen, etc., are all from about 10 years of campaigning with a certain cosmology.

IH gave me the tools to create them, to flesh them out if you will. Riem's powers are what they are because that's were before: The power to destroy the Multiverse by making it experience all the damage it's ever caused (made neutered), the ability to step between dimensions, the power to shatter souls, and the ability to utterly control darkness (go figure). In order to do that though I didn't give him Artifacts and I gave them Words of Chaos as Metempric Abilities instead.
 

Omeganian

Explorer
Easy confusion, they seem interchangeable at times. Honestly this is how I deduce it: I say 'Creation' is what a Time Lord, High Lord, Etc., creates when he becomes such a being. As each one represents the manifestation of a whole universe, or universes, I make that the 'Creation', where as 'Existence' would apply to the entirety of everything, all Universes, Planes, the Mutiverse, Akashic Library, Kuvatchim, etc.

There is also "Reality". Some people really need to agree about a proper definition of all three.
 

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