Inspire Courage Optimization

[Mistwell]

When I first read the echoblade I Thought it was incredible +1/2 lvl in sonic damage for multiple rounds? every time you are singing to buff your friends in combat? Sweet.

Looking at it more carefully I think it means you have to use bardic music only to get the sword to work - so its either you or the party. To me this screws up the primary bard role, and makes the rest of the optimizing inspire courage useless, unless he spend 2 rounds buffing (one song for allies, one song for self. And even then one effect is limited to 5 rounds, unless you picked up harmonizing or the lingering music feat.


Thoughts?

I disagree. "If you use your bardic music ability while wielding the weapon...". It doesn't say you use a bardic music attempt, like all other "charge this ability with a bardic music attempt" abilities. It says if you use your bardic music ability while wielding. Seems pretty clear to me you just have to use bardic music as normal while wielding the weapon, and in addition to your normal benefits from using bardic music you get an additional benefit to yourself.

I don't think it is out of line. WOTC knows people think the bard is way underpowered, and I think this is one more way to bring them into line with the other classes. They are STILL weak compared to other classes, but this and some of the other items and feats and prestige classes are bringing them closer to being equal.

 

[hong]

I can do +10 damage! =

But I have to be a 20th level bard =

 

[Rystil Arden]

I disagree. "If you use your bardic music ability while wielding the weapon...". It doesn't say you use a bardic music attempt, like all other "charge this ability with a bardic music attempt" abilities. It says if you use your bardic music ability while wielding. Seems pretty clear to me you just have to use bardic music as normal while wielding the weapon, and in addition to your normal benefits from using bardic music you get an additional benefit to yourself.

I don't think it is out of line. WOTC knows people think the bard is way underpowered, and I think this is one more way to bring them into line with the other classes. They are STILL weak compared to other classes, but this and some of the other items and feats and prestige classes are bringing them closer to being equal.

I think Mistwell is correct on the Echoblade. And the Bard is indeed still weak compared to the other classes, that is unless you let the player use all the crazy sources listed in this thread, stacking together for ridiculous bonuses. I guess that's true with every class though. I tend to give them all bonus types so that the Bard can get maybe 1 or 2 above their regular amount but not +14 or anything like that.

 

[Mistwell]

The Bow of Songs was reduced in power in the Magic Item Compendium, but it was also significantly reduced in price to the point where I think it is affordable and worth considering for a Bard character:

Bow of Songs (Magic Item Compendium pg. 48)
Price (Item Level): 12,330 gp (13th)
Body Slot: - (held)
Caster Level: 8th
Aura Moderate: (DC 19) evocation
Activation: Swift (command)
Weight: 2 lb.

This +1 shortbow blends music with every shot to deadly effect. On your turn, you can expend one daily use of your bardic music ability to gain a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus on the next attack roll and (if your attack hits) on the corresponding damage roll that you make with the bow.

Cost to Create: 6,000 gp (plus 33 gp for masterwork shortbow), 480 XP, 12 days.

 

[outlander36]

Ok, so my question would be: I'm building a new bard. In what order do I get the feats and spells in order to maximize earliest and best?

(I like the cheatsheet by the way)

~Outlander

 

[outlander36]

I'm thinking of starting with a human because there are so many good starting feats.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm thinking of starting with a human because there are so many good starting feats.

I agree, I think you really should start with a human for the extra feat and extra skill point. Strongheart Halfling from Forgotten Realms would work as well. And, you could always go gnome for the bonus to illusion spells and favored class.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Along with mindblank, I thought I would point out wax earplugs. By RAW they make you immune to sonic mind effects, but the effect on listen checks or deafness isn't really defined. If it's no penalty or -4 to listen it would be worth running around with your ears-stopped up if you fear sonic attacks. But they would make you immune to the bard song also.

 

[two]

I think Mistwell is correct on the Echoblade. And the Bard is indeed still weak compared to the other classes, that is unless you let the player use all the crazy sources listed in this thread, stacking together for ridiculous bonuses. I guess that's true with every class though. I tend to give them all bonus types so that the Bard can get maybe 1 or 2 above their regular amount but not +14 or anything like that.

Actually, all the bard really needs to be VERY effective is to be 2 above the standard amount. This is easily accomplished with one (bard only) spell from the SC, and one feat.

Or one spell, and one magic item.

Or a feat and an item, etc.

It is an investment, but hardly a huge one.

A Human Bard 8 could have Song of the Heart, and Badge of Valor (1,400 GP). That gives +2/+2 over base for 3 times a day (nearly always sufficient). Cost: 1,400 GP + 1 feat.

Or you could create a Vest of Legends for 8K (Create Wondrous Item), and create a Badge of Valor. Cost: about 9K. Result +2 over base 3 times a day, no feat used.

Etc.

Most classes tend to maximize their best ability (paladins with smite, etc.) It is silly to think bards won't or should not do the same, at least to a minor degree.

Again, you don't need to be doing +6/+6 by 3th level. Doing +4/+4 by 8th level is sufficient to make bards a "real" class.

 

[Mistwell]

I agree with Two on this subject.

I started this thread just to gather information on what is possible.

I think in practice, most players would just use a couple of these options, to focus the character a bit more on this particularly useful bardic ability.

Were I do make this kind of bard, I wouldn't take Words of Creation for example, and I would make very sparing using of the Inspirational Boost spell. I'd just pick up a Badge of Valor, the Song of the Heart feat, and maybe the Vest of Legends (though that is iffy). I also personally really like the crystal echoblade of harmonizing, but that isn't necessary for this build either, nor is the bow or the other two mentioned feats. I probably wouldn't multiclass with Dragon Shamon or Marshall either, though both are reasonable routes to go.

I feel bards could use some more focus, and a bit more power, and things like pumping inspire courage help address those issues. A single relatively average-powered feat, and a single relatively inexpensive magic item, and you've gone most of the way to increasing bardic power sufficiently to be competative with other classes I think.