Pathfinder 1E Interview with PATHFINDER lead designer Jason Bulmahn

[Aberzanzorax]

Link please

The link is in the original post.

Here's the relevant quote (emphasis added):

Bulmahn: It’s been a long playtest process, full of surprises. Just a few weeks ago, for example, we realized that there were no rules for stairs in the game and had to quickly add some to the book. The playtesters have been invaluable in their work to test these rules. The first big shift brought on by the playtesters was to the skill system. The first iteration was not very popular, leading me back to the drawing board more than once.

It will be interesting to see what he was referring to.

The only thing I can think of (which WOULD be really helpful to me) is if it is advice on how to make maps that have stairs involved (like how to incorporate them into different levels). I know I have a hard time with that personally when I draw up maps in Maptools for my game.

And, yeah, seems like people are reading a bit much into this offhand comment.

 

[Azgulor]

Holy knee-jerk reaction! So out of the entire interview, the most telling piece of info to be gleaned is that a rule (presumably about movement) on stairs invalidates the game? Out of 14 questions, this is what the discerning (& objective, don't forget objective!!) eye of crack RPGers pick to comment on?

Good thing Pathfinder won't have a bunch of powers that force movement of opponents or anything, 'cause that'd really highlight Paizo's inferior game design skills...

 

[Shazman]

I think you're reading too much into it. It's most likely something as simple as saying stairs count as difficult terrain.

 

[Deadboy]

Well, it's a very eye-catching and silly-sounding comment. It might be reasonable if it really is advice for setting up maps, but if it really is how to handle a set of stairs in-game, it's unnecessary and likely to be ignored by most players. It's also a silly thing to mention when you're trying to hype your game, because you're going to get raised eyebrows.

Hey, I'm likely to buy a copy of the game just to see what they did. But that doesn't mean if I see something really weird, like rules for stairs, I'm not going to remark on it.

And sorry, but forced movement is much more useful than rules for stairs. If you push someone or pick them up and throw them, that's forced movement and a welcome ability to have in a rules system.

 

[Azgulor]

It warms the cockles of my heart to see the gnashing about something as minor as including some consideration in the rules, whatever they may be, for stairs. Gamers never want for something to complain about.

You speak much wisdom, learned one!

(I tried to give you XP but the commie-XP-distribution system said I had to spread the wealth around first.)

 

[Aberzanzorax]

@ Deadboy:


But what if you push them or throw them...

DOWN THE STAIRS???

 

[Azgulor]

Well, it's a very eye-catching and silly-sounding comment. It might be reasonable if it really is advice for setting up maps, but if it really is how to handle a set of stairs in-game, it's unnecessary and likely to be ignored by most players. It's also a silly thing to mention when you're trying to hype your game, because you're going to get raised eyebrows.

Hey, I'm likely to buy a copy of the game just to see what they did. But that doesn't mean if I see something really weird, like rules for stairs, I'm not going to remark on it.

And sorry, but forced movement is much more useful than rules for stairs. If you push someone or pick them up and throw them, that's forced movement and a welcome ability to have in a rules system.

But, OMG I can't believe no one's thought about this before (EDIT--except for Aberanzorax ), what if someone pushes them down the stairs?!?!?!?

Sorry, most rules fall into the "is it useful" bucket. I don't think house rules are a new invention or uncommon occurrence.

As for Jason's comment, it was an interview - not a press release. Best playtesting example to cite, no, I don't think so. A fair estimator of the Pathfinder RPG or Jason's design skills - hell, no. Molehill, meet the mountain. Mountain, meet the molehill.

 

[Roman]

I think you're reading too much into it. It's most likely something as simple as saying stairs count as difficult terrain.

Agreed - it will probably be something along those lines.

Besides, although I have never had a situation come up where I felt I needed specific rules for stairs, I definitely think that there are several glaring holes in D&D rules for situations that do turn up fairly often - certainly often enough to justify some sort of rules-treatment.

The biggest hole in D&D rules for me is the lack of rules for running/chases/escapes and so on. Technically speaking, rules for running exist, but they are so suckastic that I don't even count them. These rules cannot be used for any exciting chases/escapes/pursuits and so on, because they are determnistic and give essentially all medium creatures the same speed. This comes up so often in my games that I have actually come up with my own system (compatible with the standard D&D system) for this and codified it for my games.

Another hole is the lack of rules for sleep - what happens when characters miss sleep and how difficult it is to avoid falling asleep. This doesn't come up as often as the chase/escape/pursuit/race issue, so I adjudicate it on an ad-hoc basis rather than creating an integrated/unified system as I did for racing/escapes and so on, but it does come up fairly often - probably often enough to justify a few lines in the rules.

Ironically, though, I am now so happy with my running/racing/chase/escape/pursuit system that if this glaring hole in the D&D rules were to be patched, I would almost certainly keep on using my own system - so you could say that I no longer want it to be patched (unless, of course, my rules were used, ha ha ha ) so that players don't expect the default.

 

[Azgulor]

But what if you push them or throw them...

DOWN THE STAIRS???

Crap, you beat me to it!

 

[Bullgrit]

In case any of this “Holy knee-jerk reaction!” is directed at me (since I was the first to point out the “rules for stairs” item), let me just point out:

I have no interest in Pathfinder. I know relatively very little about it. I haven’t been considering buying it, and I still have no thought of buying it. I'm neither for nor against it. It’s not “on my radar,” to use a phrase.

I only followed the link and read the interview out of a little curiosity and a need to waste five minutes.

I thought the rules for stairs comment was weird (the only odd thing I saw in the interview) and so I noted it.

So there’s no complaint or nerdrage from me. But I am curious to know what the rules for stairs are.

Bullgrit