Invisibility and Bat Familiars

[Tom McCafferty]

I have a problem with bats and seeing invisible.

Does invisibility stop characters being detected by a bats sonic sight?

Some bats can see as well as use sonics which one should the wizard be able to use on their familiar?

 

[Murrdox]

Invisibility does not stop a bat's blindsight ability, but Silence does.

You should allow a wizard to use the bat's blindsight. It is the primary method by which a bat "sees" anyways.

 

[Dingleberry]

Invisibility does not stop a bat's blindsight ability, but Silence does.

You should allow a wizard to use the bat's blindsight. It is the primary method by which a bat "sees" anyways.

I agree with your first point, but I definitely would NOT let a wizard "use" the bat's blindsight. At best, I'd allow the familiar to communicate to its master the location of any invisible creatures it detects. Mechanically, the wizard wouldn't have to guess the target's square, but would still have the concealment miss chance from the invisibility.

 

[rhammer2]

I agree, the wizard cannot see with the bat's blindsight. But the bat can communicate to the wizard where the target is, allowing the wizard to target the correct 5 foot square with area attacks or get the standard 50% miss on rays or other range touch attacks.

I agree with your first point, but I definitely would NOT let a wizard "use" the bat's blindsight. At best, I'd allow the familiar to communicate to its master the location of any invisible creatures it detects. Mechanically, the wizard wouldn't have to guess the target's square, but would still have the concealment miss chance from the invisibility.

 

[Murrdox]

Sorry, that's what I meant. I didn't think we were literally talking about sight through the familiar's eyes here.

By "use" the blindsight, I meant as per how the wizard can get information from the bat.

 

[Number47]

In the monster manual, it states that a bat denied it's blindsight has a visual range of only 10 feet.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Sorry, that's what I meant. I didn't think we were literally talking about sight through the familiar's eyes here.

By "use" the blindsight, I meant as per how the wizard can get information from the bat.

Right. Keep in mind, however, that this ability is limited by the level of the wizard, (and thus the form of communication he and his familiar can use,) as well as the familiar's perspective. The wizard needs to be at least 5th-level before he can actually speak with his familiar to try to glean the info he wants. And at that point he'll have to try and explain to the bat the difference between the invisible foe and the non-invisible one (since from the bat's perspective, they're all visible.)

Once the wizard is strong enough to talk with his familiar, and has managed to find a way for the bat to differentiate between invisible and visible (for the wizard), then he can successfully query the bat as to the location of any hidden enemies. Even then, he still has to deal with the 50% miss chance, and the invisible foe can still attack him at a +2 to attack, possibly + a sneak attack or two.

And although they can't understand it, foes will notice the wizard talking to the bat. So that bat had better be ready for the invisible foe to start targeting it.

 

[Firzair]

Hi,

I'm just wondering, how a bat knows that something's invisible. OK, in range of its normal sight it's clear, but beyond that range...

It would be only sensible if the wizard had somehow detected the presence of an invisible creature and asked his familiar for what creatures it "sees". Or would the bat always tell him "Yo, there's just arrived one more orc"

Greetings
Firzair

 

[Darklone]

If someone invisible would enter the fray: No big chance. If someone turns invisible, the bat with it's sufficient INT should be able to notice what he did... at least after the first time that happens.

 

[DreamChaser]

In the monster manual, it states that a bat denied it's blindsight has a visual range of only 10 feet.

I understand it is just a game, but this is untrue. The phrase "blind as a bat" is a myth. Bats can see as well as any other small mammel by day. What they lack is night vision and, being noctural creatures, this is what gets them.

The discovery channel is my friend

This said, if a wizard were seeing through her familiar bat's eyes, she would see like a bat. She would not hear like a bat (those big ears aren't just decoration, they're part of the sonar).

DC