Deuce Traveler
Adventurer
<Snort> Whoa... what? Sorry. Was nappin'.
Iron DM 2012 -- R2 complete, Finals in Progress
Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
I'm sorry for the delays, guys. Basically, I think things might be a bit slow for the next few days at least. I seem to be the only judge around -- We knew Wicht was going to be gone for the week, but Nifft has been awfully quiet, too.
I'm trying to find out what I can. I'll keep you posted.
-rg
I'm trying to find out what I can. I'll keep you posted.
-rg
Nifft
Penguin Herder
RealLife(tm) can sometimes be a problem.
My fellow judges knew I had been hesitant to sign up for this gig, because something was looming vaguely in the near future, but we couldn't find anyone else who was enough of a sucker to take my place, so we soldiered on as best we could.
Needless to say, the looming time-sink struck, and because I am a bad person I didn't immediately inform you all but instead tried to find time to do my judge thing anyway -- and ended up falling asleep at my PC twice.
I know Radiating Gnome has propositioned some potential guest judges, so if one of them is raring to go and wants my place, I will graciously step aside. If nobody else wants the job, then I'm happy to do it.
Anyway, I'd like to apologize to the contestants and my fellow judges, not just for my hiatus but more importantly for my lack of communication. Erring towards optimism is a very human failing, particularly about planning out our time, and by now I really ought to know better than to fall for it.
"We apologize for the delay", -- N
Nifft
Penguin Herder
r2m1 - Deuce Traveler vs. ender_wiggin
It took me some time to get through these. Since I'm last, I'm not going to sblock my judgement. Let's take a look at the ingredient uses.
Bundle of Straw: ender_wiggin had the straw "rolled into cigars", which is not something I think of straw as being able to do, since it's not flat. I guess it could be bundled instead of rolled, but then it's not really a cigar. Still, the idea of narcotic straw is original, and could be useful if one were trying to get mythical horse monsters addicted -- minotaurs or unicorns or pegasi, perhaps. Link to the gaudy gangster. 2/5. Deuce Traveler played the bundle of straw straight, and while it's not particularly exciting in its role as MacGuffin, it is a central element to the story, with links to the cyclops and the foundry. 2/5.
Forlorn Cyclops: ender_wiggin gave us the cyclops from the X-Men, which shoots power eye-beams and doesn't realize that the girlfriend character has been replaced. This is not the sort of cyclops one would expect in a fantasy game -- they are "docile"? -- and other than working at a forge, they are rather unlike any mythological cyclops. They also aren't characterized except in back-story, to explain why they are loyal to Sile, and the time when they were forlorn is not visible to the PCs. Link to the foundry. 1/5. Deuce Traveler's cyclops was again played straight: he lives on an island with caves, he has a herd of unusual animals, and importantly he is feeling forlorn when the PCs show up. Links to the straw and the foundry. 3/5.
Gaudy Gangster: In ender_wiggin's story, the gangster is the target of a coup by a lieutenant. His gaudy nature is written up, but is irrelevant to the story, and his ability to deal with violent conflict disappears in a fit of giggling as soon as combat starts (which would seem to ensure that his career as a gangster would have lasted about 30 minutes total). He's not a central character to the plot, either -- Sile might have been a better pick, if she had been "gaudy", since she does actually figure into the plot. 1/5 for Sorel, would have been higher for Sile. Deuce Traveler's gangster was also only nominally in the plot, but it didn't have to be like that: you gave no reason why the gangster needed a foundry in that upscale neighborhood, but his gaudy nature could have covered that perfectly, and thus given a stronger link to the foundry and suit. 1/5 which could easily have been higher.
Abandoned Foundry: This is the setting for ender_wiggin's piece, and the strongest element. It's got links to the cyclops, the suit, and the drum. Most of the useful details in the module pertain to the foundry, and it is potentially the module's reward. 4/5. Deuce Traveler uses the foundry as a justification for plot rather than as an element with which the PCs interact. This is poor use. Ingredients ought to be things the PCs see and talk about and interact with and sometimes stab. It has links to the straw and the suit. 1/5, could have been higher if the PCs were helping with the suit in a substantive way.
Powerful Suit: ender_wiggins played this one straight, it's a magical hazmat suit. Has links to the foundry and the drum. If the PCs don't avoid the ambush, the suit is a good clue that something hinky is about to go down, if they see Sile and all her minions donning their suits. 3/5. Deuce Traveler gave us a nice spin on the suit in that it's a legal suit regarding the foundry and filed against the gangster. Those are good strong links. Unfortunately it's also mostly incidental to the plot, since the PCs are hardly interacting with the suit at all -- a lost opportunity here. There's an attempt to tie the suit to the straw, but those inspectors represent a separate legal challenge from the suit, so no point for linkage there. 2/5.
Drum: ender_wiggins has the drum as the central element of the foundry, with links to the cyclops who works it. It's hard for me to figure out what it's supposed to look like, but in my most charitable interpretation it could be an interesting fight location if the PCs were actually dumb enough to all go inside it at once to try to activate the factory. (My players wouldn't fall for that.) 2/5. Deuce Traveler has the drum as an element of a fight which is avoidable, particularly to a party of high-level PCs, and which lacks links to any other elements. It's a neat idea, but it's ultimately window-dressing rather than architecture. 1/5.
Usability: Ambush in the Armatorium has plausibility problems which I'd need to fix before I could use most of it, including some justification for the novel cyclops species, why the drug kingpin is useless and vulnerable in combat, and how to get the PCs to all go into the drum at once to turn it on. Also, it's only useful for groups of PCs who are happy to help a drug kingpin become a magical arms dealer (i.e. Paladins need not apply). 1/5. On the other side, Going Legit is well suited to PCs who are non-evil, or at least who are presentable to polite society. With some tweaking, it could be made into a very interesting adventure... which means that I see a lot of usable content in it. I'll go into detail on this following the judgment. 3/5.
Evocation: I like the idea of mildly narcotic waste-product cigars, even if it makes no sense to have them be "rolled" straw, the cigars are a nice image. The Armatorium with its scattered rays of radiance is an evocative fight location. 2/5. I liked the righteous indignation of the townsfolk who file the suit; it'll be something that sets the player's sympathy in opposition to that of his PC. On the other side, I found the forlorn cyclops with his tale of ecological woe, and the barren island itself, quite evocative; and the image of the chiefs & their shamans on the mountain top with their drum while tribesmen move through the foliage is good stuff. 3/5.
Originality: Sometimes being original is not helpful to your score. For example, the cyclops(es) in Ambush in the Armatorium are basically new monsters which don't have a whole lot of "cyclops"-ness, and thus they lose points here and as an ingredient. The stand-out in this category is the law suit in Going Legit, which IMHO has a lot of potential for awesome. AA gets 1/5 (which includes a penalty for the not-quite-cyclops(es)), while GL gets a 3/5.
Final Scores:
Ambush in the Armatorium = 17
Going Legit = 19
Congratulations Deuce Traveler.
- - -
I said I'd talk about what I would have done with the law suit, but it's late, and I'm tired. Hopefully I'll have time to write about it some time this week.
Cheers, -- N
It took me some time to get through these. Since I'm last, I'm not going to sblock my judgement. Let's take a look at the ingredient uses.
Bundle of Straw: ender_wiggin had the straw "rolled into cigars", which is not something I think of straw as being able to do, since it's not flat. I guess it could be bundled instead of rolled, but then it's not really a cigar. Still, the idea of narcotic straw is original, and could be useful if one were trying to get mythical horse monsters addicted -- minotaurs or unicorns or pegasi, perhaps. Link to the gaudy gangster. 2/5. Deuce Traveler played the bundle of straw straight, and while it's not particularly exciting in its role as MacGuffin, it is a central element to the story, with links to the cyclops and the foundry. 2/5.
Forlorn Cyclops: ender_wiggin gave us the cyclops from the X-Men, which shoots power eye-beams and doesn't realize that the girlfriend character has been replaced. This is not the sort of cyclops one would expect in a fantasy game -- they are "docile"? -- and other than working at a forge, they are rather unlike any mythological cyclops. They also aren't characterized except in back-story, to explain why they are loyal to Sile, and the time when they were forlorn is not visible to the PCs. Link to the foundry. 1/5. Deuce Traveler's cyclops was again played straight: he lives on an island with caves, he has a herd of unusual animals, and importantly he is feeling forlorn when the PCs show up. Links to the straw and the foundry. 3/5.
Gaudy Gangster: In ender_wiggin's story, the gangster is the target of a coup by a lieutenant. His gaudy nature is written up, but is irrelevant to the story, and his ability to deal with violent conflict disappears in a fit of giggling as soon as combat starts (which would seem to ensure that his career as a gangster would have lasted about 30 minutes total). He's not a central character to the plot, either -- Sile might have been a better pick, if she had been "gaudy", since she does actually figure into the plot. 1/5 for Sorel, would have been higher for Sile. Deuce Traveler's gangster was also only nominally in the plot, but it didn't have to be like that: you gave no reason why the gangster needed a foundry in that upscale neighborhood, but his gaudy nature could have covered that perfectly, and thus given a stronger link to the foundry and suit. 1/5 which could easily have been higher.
Abandoned Foundry: This is the setting for ender_wiggin's piece, and the strongest element. It's got links to the cyclops, the suit, and the drum. Most of the useful details in the module pertain to the foundry, and it is potentially the module's reward. 4/5. Deuce Traveler uses the foundry as a justification for plot rather than as an element with which the PCs interact. This is poor use. Ingredients ought to be things the PCs see and talk about and interact with and sometimes stab. It has links to the straw and the suit. 1/5, could have been higher if the PCs were helping with the suit in a substantive way.
Powerful Suit: ender_wiggins played this one straight, it's a magical hazmat suit. Has links to the foundry and the drum. If the PCs don't avoid the ambush, the suit is a good clue that something hinky is about to go down, if they see Sile and all her minions donning their suits. 3/5. Deuce Traveler gave us a nice spin on the suit in that it's a legal suit regarding the foundry and filed against the gangster. Those are good strong links. Unfortunately it's also mostly incidental to the plot, since the PCs are hardly interacting with the suit at all -- a lost opportunity here. There's an attempt to tie the suit to the straw, but those inspectors represent a separate legal challenge from the suit, so no point for linkage there. 2/5.
Drum: ender_wiggins has the drum as the central element of the foundry, with links to the cyclops who works it. It's hard for me to figure out what it's supposed to look like, but in my most charitable interpretation it could be an interesting fight location if the PCs were actually dumb enough to all go inside it at once to try to activate the factory. (My players wouldn't fall for that.) 2/5. Deuce Traveler has the drum as an element of a fight which is avoidable, particularly to a party of high-level PCs, and which lacks links to any other elements. It's a neat idea, but it's ultimately window-dressing rather than architecture. 1/5.
Usability: Ambush in the Armatorium has plausibility problems which I'd need to fix before I could use most of it, including some justification for the novel cyclops species, why the drug kingpin is useless and vulnerable in combat, and how to get the PCs to all go into the drum at once to turn it on. Also, it's only useful for groups of PCs who are happy to help a drug kingpin become a magical arms dealer (i.e. Paladins need not apply). 1/5. On the other side, Going Legit is well suited to PCs who are non-evil, or at least who are presentable to polite society. With some tweaking, it could be made into a very interesting adventure... which means that I see a lot of usable content in it. I'll go into detail on this following the judgment. 3/5.
Evocation: I like the idea of mildly narcotic waste-product cigars, even if it makes no sense to have them be "rolled" straw, the cigars are a nice image. The Armatorium with its scattered rays of radiance is an evocative fight location. 2/5. I liked the righteous indignation of the townsfolk who file the suit; it'll be something that sets the player's sympathy in opposition to that of his PC. On the other side, I found the forlorn cyclops with his tale of ecological woe, and the barren island itself, quite evocative; and the image of the chiefs & their shamans on the mountain top with their drum while tribesmen move through the foliage is good stuff. 3/5.
Originality: Sometimes being original is not helpful to your score. For example, the cyclops(es) in Ambush in the Armatorium are basically new monsters which don't have a whole lot of "cyclops"-ness, and thus they lose points here and as an ingredient. The stand-out in this category is the law suit in Going Legit, which IMHO has a lot of potential for awesome. AA gets 1/5 (which includes a penalty for the not-quite-cyclops(es)), while GL gets a 3/5.
Final Scores:
Ambush in the Armatorium = 17
Going Legit = 19
Congratulations Deuce Traveler.
- - -
I said I'd talk about what I would have done with the law suit, but it's late, and I'm tired. Hopefully I'll have time to write about it some time this week.
Cheers, -- N
Deuce Traveler
Adventurer
Thanks Nifft. I'll take the critiques to heart.
Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
And that's why we have three judges for the later rounds. Congrats, Deuce Traveller has picked up a split decision and a ticket to the finals.
-rg
-rg
Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
Master Piece (MP) vs Curious Case of the Suspended Clergyman (CC)
[sblock]
Ingredients
Artist's Studio- In MP, the artist's studio is a location the investigating PCs visit as they try to track down the robe of bones. It works, no problems there. In CC, the treatment is pretty much exactly the same -- a location the investigating PCs visit. No advantage to be gained here.
The Final Dragon - The final dragon in MP is the product of the transformation created by the Robe of bones. It's all right, but I didn't really feel the "final" part of "final dragon" in this. My favorite test for something like this is to replace the word "final" when it appears with something else -- if that makes no appreciable difference, then that part of the ingredient isn't really doing much in the adventure. In this case, replace "final" with "sugarplum" and we don't lose any real meaning in the adventure. I mean, what was really final about the dragon?
In CC, the final dragon is the form being taken by Thalidan Creed. The ingredient inventory indicates that "final modifies the nature of the beast? but I don't see that clearly in this entry. I could be missing it, but Sugarplum works just about as well here as it does in MP (and maybe better, given the way CC uses "battered". So, no advantages here, either.
Battered Manuscript - in MP the manuscript that describes the ritual and a dingus at an early stage of the adventure. It works, but it isn't especially cool. But in CC, we get a surprising use -- the manuscript has been literally battered and cooked and fed to Arian the artist. I wished for a bit more discussion of how eating the manuscript pages worked to compel Arian to complete the ritual, but overall I like this use. Advantage CC.
Suspended Clergyman- In MP, the suspended Clergyman is Hanar, banished to the bookkeeping offices of a religion because he's a paranoid nutcase who sees conspiracy behind every door. I was amused by the combination of these two ingredients, and there's a bit of fun to be had with this version of suspended -- like a suspended cop going rogue -- that is a potential I see in Hanar. It's a bit of a challenge, though -- Hanar has a lot of potential to take over driving the narrative of the adventure, rather than the PCs.
In CC, the suspended clergyman is doubled. In this case the "suspended" is literal -- at the opening of the adventure, the PCs enter the temple and see Arian suspended in air by his musical chant. Later, in a parallel ritual, they find Thalidan suspended by his own chant. Since these two are two sides of one coin, the doubled use of the ingredient isn't the problem that it often indicates. And while the more literal use of "suspended" works well, it didn't really do much more than flavor those scenes -- their suspension doesn't do anything in the story. So, cool, but I think MP has an edge here.
Checks and Balances - in MP, while I liked that Hanar was suspended from preaching, and that his banishment to the financial office was how the two ingredients, I was actually a little disappointed in reading "checks and balances" as "accounts receivable". It works, but left me sort of "meh."
In CC, the checks and balances the dual structure of the faith -- the light and the dark, both having their own high priest, and the two sides lead the faith as a joint effort. I liked this interpretation better, and it gives shape to the story, so I'm going to give CC the advantage here.
Robe of Bones - In MP, this is the The artifact that transforms a subject into a dragon. It works pretty well. I like the description of how it works. In CC, it's a magic item used to impersonate a target it's used to kill. It sounds like an interesting item, but the idea of using bones (interior) to take on the appearance (exterior) of a target is problematic, as is the idea that you have to get the robe onto the body of your target somehow -- I mean, it's interesting, but it's a long way to go and feels like it's just bending over backwards to include it as an ingredient. So advantage MP.
So, after all six ingredients, we are tied at 2-2. Awesome.
Creativity.
Both adventures are good -- they'd be interesting stories to play through and have some cool ideas. It's tough to draw big distinctions between the two.
CC has, at least to my mind, a big flaw, though. I struggle with the description of the two sides of the musical faith as "light" and "dark". It's true that since Star Wars (and really long before that) the ideas of light and dark were bigger than visual, but still, there seem to be so many other, more interesting dualities in music to capitalize on to make an interesting, two-sided faith. Major/Minor, Harmonic/Dischordant, whatever. Those would feel like they were part of the music faith. Especially when you're using terms like "chord" as a position title in the faith, why resort to light and dark for the two sides? Every time I read "light" or "dark" in regards to the music I found myself frustrated that a musical faith would be described in visual instead of aural opposites.
MP also has it's problems. I struggled with the checks and balances thing -- I was hoping for something better than accounting out of that ingredient, but in the end it satisfies the ingredient, even if it's not a very satisfactory use. It might have helped if that accounting reading were actually made more important to the whole story. Also, the temple or church was a lot less interesting. This is a modern (cyberpunk) setting, so it's theoretically possible that this is some sort of christian church, but the term "temple" is used, and that makes me thing jewish. But, really, there isn't much of any sort of flavor to this faith at all, and given it's role in the background to the story, that could really have helped.
Playability -
There are some truly striking similarities between these two adventures -- they're both investigations and have a very modern feel, even if CC wasn't explicitly set in a Cyberpunk/modern setting the way MP was. I didn't find a lot of style or playability difference between the two.
Overall --
I found these two entries had a lot of similarities -- they struggled with a lot of the same ingredients, and succeeded with a lot of the same elements. The judging has been especially difficult.
In the end, I think that I found the idea of the church of music -- a divided, dual-led church -- to an interesting element that I can really see making for some creative, interesting gaming. While I still struggle with the light/dark thing, it's still, to me, the strongest and most interesting creative element in both entries. So, by a narrow magin, I'll cast my vote for the Curious Case of the Suspended Clergyman, by Waylander the Slayer.
Bear in mind, I was the minority report in the other semifinal match, so this might be the kiss of death, Waylander.
[/sblock]
-rg
[sblock]
Ingredients
Artist's Studio- In MP, the artist's studio is a location the investigating PCs visit as they try to track down the robe of bones. It works, no problems there. In CC, the treatment is pretty much exactly the same -- a location the investigating PCs visit. No advantage to be gained here.
The Final Dragon - The final dragon in MP is the product of the transformation created by the Robe of bones. It's all right, but I didn't really feel the "final" part of "final dragon" in this. My favorite test for something like this is to replace the word "final" when it appears with something else -- if that makes no appreciable difference, then that part of the ingredient isn't really doing much in the adventure. In this case, replace "final" with "sugarplum" and we don't lose any real meaning in the adventure. I mean, what was really final about the dragon?
In CC, the final dragon is the form being taken by Thalidan Creed. The ingredient inventory indicates that "final modifies the nature of the beast? but I don't see that clearly in this entry. I could be missing it, but Sugarplum works just about as well here as it does in MP (and maybe better, given the way CC uses "battered". So, no advantages here, either.
Battered Manuscript - in MP the manuscript that describes the ritual and a dingus at an early stage of the adventure. It works, but it isn't especially cool. But in CC, we get a surprising use -- the manuscript has been literally battered and cooked and fed to Arian the artist. I wished for a bit more discussion of how eating the manuscript pages worked to compel Arian to complete the ritual, but overall I like this use. Advantage CC.
Suspended Clergyman- In MP, the suspended Clergyman is Hanar, banished to the bookkeeping offices of a religion because he's a paranoid nutcase who sees conspiracy behind every door. I was amused by the combination of these two ingredients, and there's a bit of fun to be had with this version of suspended -- like a suspended cop going rogue -- that is a potential I see in Hanar. It's a bit of a challenge, though -- Hanar has a lot of potential to take over driving the narrative of the adventure, rather than the PCs.
In CC, the suspended clergyman is doubled. In this case the "suspended" is literal -- at the opening of the adventure, the PCs enter the temple and see Arian suspended in air by his musical chant. Later, in a parallel ritual, they find Thalidan suspended by his own chant. Since these two are two sides of one coin, the doubled use of the ingredient isn't the problem that it often indicates. And while the more literal use of "suspended" works well, it didn't really do much more than flavor those scenes -- their suspension doesn't do anything in the story. So, cool, but I think MP has an edge here.
Checks and Balances - in MP, while I liked that Hanar was suspended from preaching, and that his banishment to the financial office was how the two ingredients, I was actually a little disappointed in reading "checks and balances" as "accounts receivable". It works, but left me sort of "meh."
In CC, the checks and balances the dual structure of the faith -- the light and the dark, both having their own high priest, and the two sides lead the faith as a joint effort. I liked this interpretation better, and it gives shape to the story, so I'm going to give CC the advantage here.
Robe of Bones - In MP, this is the The artifact that transforms a subject into a dragon. It works pretty well. I like the description of how it works. In CC, it's a magic item used to impersonate a target it's used to kill. It sounds like an interesting item, but the idea of using bones (interior) to take on the appearance (exterior) of a target is problematic, as is the idea that you have to get the robe onto the body of your target somehow -- I mean, it's interesting, but it's a long way to go and feels like it's just bending over backwards to include it as an ingredient. So advantage MP.
So, after all six ingredients, we are tied at 2-2. Awesome.
Creativity.
Both adventures are good -- they'd be interesting stories to play through and have some cool ideas. It's tough to draw big distinctions between the two.
CC has, at least to my mind, a big flaw, though. I struggle with the description of the two sides of the musical faith as "light" and "dark". It's true that since Star Wars (and really long before that) the ideas of light and dark were bigger than visual, but still, there seem to be so many other, more interesting dualities in music to capitalize on to make an interesting, two-sided faith. Major/Minor, Harmonic/Dischordant, whatever. Those would feel like they were part of the music faith. Especially when you're using terms like "chord" as a position title in the faith, why resort to light and dark for the two sides? Every time I read "light" or "dark" in regards to the music I found myself frustrated that a musical faith would be described in visual instead of aural opposites.
MP also has it's problems. I struggled with the checks and balances thing -- I was hoping for something better than accounting out of that ingredient, but in the end it satisfies the ingredient, even if it's not a very satisfactory use. It might have helped if that accounting reading were actually made more important to the whole story. Also, the temple or church was a lot less interesting. This is a modern (cyberpunk) setting, so it's theoretically possible that this is some sort of christian church, but the term "temple" is used, and that makes me thing jewish. But, really, there isn't much of any sort of flavor to this faith at all, and given it's role in the background to the story, that could really have helped.
Playability -
There are some truly striking similarities between these two adventures -- they're both investigations and have a very modern feel, even if CC wasn't explicitly set in a Cyberpunk/modern setting the way MP was. I didn't find a lot of style or playability difference between the two.
Overall --
I found these two entries had a lot of similarities -- they struggled with a lot of the same ingredients, and succeeded with a lot of the same elements. The judging has been especially difficult.
In the end, I think that I found the idea of the church of music -- a divided, dual-led church -- to an interesting element that I can really see making for some creative, interesting gaming. While I still struggle with the light/dark thing, it's still, to me, the strongest and most interesting creative element in both entries. So, by a narrow magin, I'll cast my vote for the Curious Case of the Suspended Clergyman, by Waylander the Slayer.
Bear in mind, I was the minority report in the other semifinal match, so this might be the kiss of death, Waylander.
[/sblock]
-rg
ender_wiggin
First Post
Congrats to Deuce Traveler, good luck in the finals.
Deuce Traveler
Adventurer
Thanks Ender! I hope to see you in more contests.
