iron heroes and armiger token pool

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I got the book a few days ago and love it. One thing that struck me as odd was that Armigers seem to be at a disadvantage in terms of collecting tokens when compared to other classes. One token per 10 points of damage resisted doesn't seem like very much to me, especially when other classes can start an encounter with a significant number of tokens or can pick multiple tokens up by spending a move, standard or full action. Has anyone used an armiger in a game? Is this something that looks bad on paper but plays fine in a real game situation?

 

[Henry]

I'll move this over to the d20 Systems rules forum. Maybe even Mearls might chime in!

As an additional suggestion, have you also posted to Malhavoc's forums?

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Thanks Henry.. I'll check out the Malhavoc forums also.

 

[XCorvis]

Read it again - amigers get tokens every time they get hit, which should be plenty. They ALSO get an extra token for every 10 points of damage absorbed by their armor.

Armigers have more problems spending tokens than getting them.

 

[iwatt]

Read it again - amigers get tokens every time they get hit, which should be plenty. They ALSO get an extra token for every 10 points of damage absorbed by their armor.

Armigers have more problems spending tokens than getting them.

Actually, the OP is correct. you only gain tokens for every 10 hps your armor soaks. The advantage of the Armor pool is that it works against all rivals (unlike the Wepon master or archer). But it does have a lower max cap (5+Levl v/s 10+level).

Is this something that looks bad on paper but plays fine in a real game situation?

I haven't tried it out yet. Some alternatives are: take defensive challenges to decrease your defense but amp up your DR. That will help you gain tokens faster, and usually keep you healthy enough.

On the Malhavoc forums, there was some discussion about having Armigers gain tokens when opponents miss them as well. I haven't played enough with an Armiger to tell you how it works.

 

[DrSpunj]

Actually, the OP is correct. you only gain tokens for every 10 hps your armor soaks. The advantage of the Armor pool is that it works against all rivals (unlike the Wepon master or archer). But it does have a lower max cap (5+Levl v/s 10+level).

I thought the IH Errata released shortly after the book removed that, iwatt:

p. 38, Armiger: Under "Armor Pool" near the top of the page, delete the sentence, "You may have at most a number of unspent aim tokens equal to 5 + your class level."

Or did the Errata get errata-ed and I missed it?

As to the OP's question, I too am curious how it plays out. It seems like soaking up 10 points at low levels would take a lot of hits, partly because they have to actually hit you to do damage in the first place (and you're not walking around naked, after all, you're a turtle!) and second because most low level foes don't dish out a lot of damage. By the time you get any tokens your enemies are likely dead before you can spend them.

It may play out fine at higher levels where everyone's throwing out at least 10 damage with an average weapon damage roll. And I can also see the Armiger really focusing on the Defensive Combat Challenges to lower his Defense to make himself easier to hit so he can absorb more damage and get more tokens. I just don't know if that really works without using them every round (in which case it seems like it should be another class ability).

Anyone tried one? At what level(s)?

Thanks,

DrSpunj

 

[Capellan]

partly because they have to actually hit you to do damage in the first place (and you're not walking around naked, after all, you're a turtle!)

The 'turtle' part has no impact on how hard you are to hit in IH, remember. In fact if you have a high Dex (though I don't know why an Armiger would) then heavy armour will actually reduce your Defence due to the Max Dex limits.

At lower levels, the Armiger needs to seek out the toughest opponents - leaders and their 'right hand' NPCs - and engage them in order to build up tokens. Leave the rank-and-file for the other PCs (unless there are a lot of them, in which case do your best to get flanked by as many as possible!).

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Thanks to everyone for their input. At higher levels, the Armiger has options to increase his DR via feats, which would increase his rate of token accumulation. Even this doesn't seem like much compared to how fast other classes gather tokens. And at low levels, where the DR is lower and opponents rarely if ever have iterative attacks.. the opportunity to gain tokens seems limited. Like DrSpunj said, most combats will likely be over before the Armiger has picked up enough tokens to activate any abilities. Unless, of course, there's something I'm missing.

I'm starting to think XCorvis is onto something with his (albeit incorrect) notion of gaining a token with every hit.

 

[XCorvis]

Actually, the OP is correct. you only gain tokens for every 10 hps your armor soaks. The advantage of the Armor pool is that it works against all rivals (unlike the Wepon master or archer). But it does have a lower max cap (5+Levl v/s 10+level).

Wow, you're right (except about the 5+ part). I had been reading too much into the flavor text.

Well, having tested the armiger that way (1 token per hit), I have to say it still sucks pretty hard. The class is counter-intuitive and has two focuses working at cross purposes - get hit, but don't take damage. If you spend all your feats on the obvious build (max out on the Armor Mastery DR feats), you're left with a very boring character. Nobody likes to get hit a lot.

 

[wizofice]

Nobody likes to get hit a lot.

Have a close look at the Berserker.

But that is a point, that they can use their tokens against any target, vs. most other not being able to. With 1d4+1 or 1d6 armor, that's going to be about three hits, I guess, per token. Maybe the idea is to get surrounded (but you may have to fight for that square with your Berserker pal).