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[IronDM] Iron DM Returns! Winner announced!

carpedavid

First Post
Round 2, Match 2: Nonamazing vs. Stormborn

At first glance, there is an obvious difference between Stormborn and Nonamazing's entries: length. Stormborn clocks in with an entry of approximately 2700 words, just shy of the recommended limit of 3500. Nonamazing, on the other hand, more than triples that length, with an entry just shy of 10,000 words. It's an impressive feat, to be certain, but is it three times as good, or is Nonamazing just long-winded? That, folks, is what we're here to find out.

Despite the obvious difference, there are actually a fair number of similarities between the two entries: both involve a worn down city, both pit the PCs against a criminal network (of sorts) that is threatening the city somehow, and both end up with the PCs crawling around in a network of underground tunnels. So what's different between the two? How do we tell who won? Well, let's begin with an examination of the ingredients.

The first ingredient in the list is arguably the one that sees the biggest disparity in the quality of use: the eleven headed pyrohydra. Of the six ingredients, Nonamazing clearly spent the most time on this. Giving each head of his intelligent creature a personality of its own actually justifies the "eleven-headed" quality of the ingredient, and he also manages to work in the "pyro" part, with the "scorched" imagery that the PCs encounter throughout. Moreover, the idea of a hydra fits in thematically with the "many headed" organization that thieves guilds often are. Some might find the idea of a multi-headed hydra talking to itself silly, but it manages not to break my suspension of disbelief.

Stormborn, on the other hand, employs the hydra in the role of "the heavy," but he leaves it at that. There's no justification for it being eleven-headed, pyro-, or hydra. It could have truly been any powerful creature, and the scenario would have played out exactly the same. I even looked for a justification that perhaps Stormborn had failed to make clear. Maybe the half-dragon kobolds are thematically related, since the hydra is of the "dragon" creature type, right? Nope - a hydra is a magical beast, not a dragon. Maybe it's the fire-breathing, since dragons breathe fire, right? Nope - these are black half-dragons, and black dragons spew acid. Well, hydras are sorta reptilian, and kobolds are sorta reptilian, right? I guess, but it's pretty weak. As a result, Nonamazing jumps right into the lead with this ingredient.

Next on the list is the Drums of Panic. Stormborn's explanation of the drums' effect is clever because it thematically relates to his kobold antagonists without modifying the mechanics of the ingredient. That the drums sound like a dragon's footsteps and reproduce his "frightful presence" makes the ingredient seem more believable - it's exactly the kind of item that a group of half-dragon kobolds might have. Additionally, the drums are used creatively by the kobolds. They have a specific tactic adapted to using them: corral the enemies into the area of effect, block off their escape, and then use the drums to neutralize them as a threat.

Nonamazing, on the other hand, uses the drums as a source of some of the strange effects that have been occurring in the city. While I don't mind the creative interpretation of ingredients, I think this is stretching things a bit. The drums of panic have a range of 120 feet. That's it. While I could certainly believe that the sewers where they're being played lies within 120 feet of the surface, they can only be used once per day (at least according to the standard rules). The drums just aren't capable of producing the kind of effect attributed to them without elevating them to something near-artifact power. Also, the idea of having the drums produce only one kind of fear, claustrophobia, doesn't make sense. They're drums - designed to clear out large, open sections of enemy combatants. Why would they be created to produce a specific type of fear that runs counter to the type of environment that they're likely to be used in? I know! It's because it creates a connection between ingredients.

While I place great emphasis on the connections between ingredients, I expect them to feel natural and organic. When they're so obviously artificial, like this is, they make the suspension of disbelief harder. It's the same feeling I get when I watch a movie and see a character do something dumb for the sole reason that if they didn't, then there wouldn't be a plot. It takes me out of the experience, and forces me to recognize the meta-aspects of the game; "Oh, this is here because it's convenient for the plot." Stormborn narrows the lead that Nonamazing created with the pyrohydra.

Next on the list is Great Cleave. Once again, Nonamazing goes for an odd arbitrary effect in order to tie it in to the rest of the ingredients. In this case, the effect comes from yet another flawed artifact created by the bardic lich Vothario. His Pipes of Prowess are engineered to grant the "target" the feats Cleave and Great Cleave - but with a drawback that the recipient basically goes berserk. At first is seems just sort of arbitrary - yet another "connection" that really doesn't make much sense. On closer inspection, though, one realizes that it's completely out of place. Look at the description of all of the other "pipe" magical items in the game: they affect everyone within a certain range. Why? Because that's how music works! You can't play an instrument and expect only one person to hear it.

Ok, to be fair, we need to examine whether this use of the ingredient could be fixed by changing the effect from a target to an area. In short, the answer is no. Nonamazing specifically makes the item's effect a target, because if he didn't, then he risks having all of the thralls and the pyrohydra go berserk and attack each other, and that would be the end of the adventure. Additionally, it's not even really the ingredient "Great Cleave" that's featured here - it's the berserker effect that creates the danger.

In his attempt to "integrate" the ingredient, he manages to completely ignore the essential qualities of the ingredient, which is really the same as not integrating it at all. Integration doesn't simply mean tossing in an arbitrary connection and then saying, "Hey look, a connection!" No - it means finding an organic way to tie disparate qualities of each ingredient into a playable adventure.

Stormborn, on the other hand, specifically sets up a scenario where the PCs are forced to deal with the kobold chieftain's favored battle tactic: close quarters combat. The use of the ingredient makes sense: the kobolds have had enough time to set up the lair to their advantage. The small rooms that force everyone into close quarters are perfect for someone who depends on Great Cleave to dish out tremendous amounts of damage. This certainly would force the characters to "interact" with the ingredient, if one can call having a sword stuck in one's belly "interaction."

Furthermore, as part of the overall goal of killing the kobolds, it's integrated well into the adventure. Though the PCs may have other tactics that allow them to bypass other parts of the kobold lair, here, they pretty much have to step up and take out the kobold chief, which, more than likely, means getting into the range of his blade. With this ingredient and the last, Stormborn pulls even again with Nonamazing.

Since I just mentioned the kobold chief's specially crafted rooms, let's look at the Spike Stones ingredient next. What is Spike Stones? It's a spell that specifically makes a section of dungeon floor dangerous to walk through. Does either contestant use the ingredient in that way? No. Stormborn's specially crafted rooms have the spikes covering the walls, in order to better concentrate the enemies toward the center. Nonamazing has a "living spell" that's basically an ooze with spikes. Neither is a strict use, so which is better?

Stormborn's use seems truer to the purpose of the ingredient. His "wall-mounted" spell is designed to inflict damage and restrict movement through an area - which is the point of the Spike Stones spell. In addition, the spell is integrated into the Great Cleave ingredient in a way that makes sense. As a PC wandering through these caves, I would immediately be able to understand why that spell was placed as it was.

Nonamazing's use of Spikey, the living spell, is extremely creative, but it doesn't capture the essential quality of the spell nearly as well. The 1d8 damage from the spikes is folded into Spikey's stat block, but the other qualities (nearly invisible trap, reduction of movement rate, etc.) aren't addressed. The living spell's placement as a guardian is adequate, but it's merely adequate. Stormborn surpasses Nonamazing with his use of this ingredient.

Since we're in the sewers already, let's discuss Claustrophobia. I've already expressed my dismay with Nonamazing's Drums of Panic, so by extension, I've already expressed my dismay with his use of this ingredient: it seems arbitrarily included. Further, Nonamazing's sewers are small and difficult to maneuver through, but he gives us no good reason why they should be so. Sewers in "ancient cities" and especially in fantasy fiction, tend to be big enough to work in. Technology was not so miniaturized at the time that long, small tunnels could be dug easily. Furthermore, his gang, the Black Rose, needs to be able to maneuver through these tunnels, too. If they were really this difficult to navigate, why would the mostly-human sized choose them as a base of operations? Yes, they have a "key" to get through them, but it still seems needlessly difficult.

Stormborn, on the other hand, provides a very good rationalization for his tunnel system to be small - it was built by kobolds, who are small creatures. For them, the system is perfectly usable, but it's going to feel cramped and claustrophobic for "big folk." In one sense, this small system should make the characters feel slightly claustrophobic, but then Stormborn extends the use of his ingredient. The dwarf that the party is sent in to rescue has been trapped in an enclosed space and repeatedly been subject to the fear effects of the drums of panic, which has led him to develop Claustrophobia.

Again, Stormborn finds a natural way to integrate the ingredient, and once again, he forces the PCs to interact with it in an unexpected fashion. Here, the PCs will need to deal with the dwarf's claustrophobia as they try to free him from the tunnels. A callous group might knock the poor guy out and carry his unconscious body to the surface, while a more creative group might try a variety of spells to rid him of the condition. In either case, the group has to deal with it in some manner. Stormborn extends his lead over Nonamazing, with only one ingredient left: the Withered Rose.

Here, Stormborn falters. Nicknaming the once-glorious town of Koth the Withered Rose is thematically very strong. If the majority of the adventure took place in the town, and the PCs had to deal with poor merchants, run-down inns, abandoned buildings, poverty-stricken peasants, and the like, it would be a superior use of the ingredient. As it is written, though, the vast majority of the adventure takes place in the kobold caves, so the PCs really don't interact much with the town. Additionally, not much description of the withered nature of the town is provided, and the merchant whose brother disappeared was quite rich. I'm not even going to give him credit for the Withering Rose music box, since it feels like Stormborn realized that simply naming his town the "Withered Rose" might not be concrete enough, and dropped this in at the very end.

Nonamazing, on the other hand, has the Black Rose gang employ the Withered Rose as their symbol. They use it to mark their kills (not a bright move, but a definite conceit of the genre), and as a key to get past the beasties in the sewers. It functions as a clue for the PCs and as a potential means to bypass some of the obstacles in the sewer. It's tied in to the rest of the adventure thematically, and works well. Kudos go to Nonamazing for his use of this ingredient.

At this point in the analysis, Stormborn is ahead by a lot. While Nonamazing had a couple stand-out ingredient uses, overall, it feels like he had an adventure already planned, and he twisted and mangled the ingredients until they fit. Stormborn, on the other hand, has let the ingredients shape the adventure for him, creating something much more cohesive and believable. Let's move to the analysis of playability and overall design.

Nonamazing's entry begins with a series of vignettes that, in and of themselves, reveal little. The accumulation of experience is designed to draw the PCs into the web that the Black Rose is spinning. It's an inventive setup to the second half of the adventure: the dungeon crawl. The dungeon crawl works fine, as written, and Nonamazing has even gone to the trouble to include a map (a first, if I'm not mistaken, for an IronDM entry).

The adventure includes lots of information detailing the kinds of information that the PCs can acquire and the types of people that they'll meet as they make their way through the city. However, the antagonist's goals don't really seem to be all that pressing. The "destabilization" of the city is supposedly being accomplished by the playing of the Drums of Panic, but I've already had my say about that. Even if they do work as Nonamazing suggests, the effects seem to be a long time in coming.

Furthermore, the eventual acquisition of the Pipes of Prowess doesn't seem to be all that worrying to me, especially if they work as the author suggests. Could they cause some random trouble? Sure - but they're not going to cause mass hysteria or the city walls to come tumbling down. In fact, so much is made of them, but then the hydra ends up with them anyway, and the PCs have to beat him while they're in his possession. That just serves to demonstrate that they're a mundane threat - not an epic one. This is a case of "think globally, act locally," that's a little too local.

Stormborn, on the other hand, lays out the PCs' goals quite clearly: they need to rescue the captured dwarf, kill the pyrohydra, and kill or otherwise drive off the kobold attackers. Furthermore, he creates a sense of urgency by setting up a credible threat: the kobolds and pyrohydra have been attacking merchants, threatening the economic good of the town, and there's a missing dwarf, whose life is presumably in danger.

Once the PCs have been given their goals, there's a bit of investigation as they try to find the kobold lair, which Stormborn provides a number of suggestions for. Once found, the adventure takes on much of the same character as Nonamazing's, save that Stormborn's tunnel complex makes more sense.

I've chastised contestants on more than one occasion for sending higher-level parties into "kill the kobold" scenarios, because higher-level parties often have magic that can get around mundane traps and monsters. Stormborn avoids this pitfall, though, since he takes the time to illustrate the kinds of intelligent tactics that the kobolds employ, such as collapsing tunnels to trap PCs. He acknowledges that higher-level PCs will probably be able to bypass some of the obstacles that the kobolds have set in their way, so he only details the ones that he's pretty sure they will interact with.

Combine the intelligent encounter design with goals that involve the PCs having to get down and dirty, and you've got a dungeon crawl that works for higher-level PCs. The "dungeon" in this case isn't simply a means to drain the PCs resources in preparation for one big combat, it's a challenge in and of itself.

As I mentioned at the beginning, Nonamazing's entry is three times as long as Stormborn's. It's a noble effort, but is the length an indication of quality? While it's probably not fair to ask whether Nonamazing's entry is three times better than Stormborn's, we can probably ask whether it accomplishes three times as much. The answer is clearly no. Stormborn manages to accomplish within his 2700 words nearly as much as Nonamazing, and he manages to make it more cohesive.

Therefore, for stronger ingredient use and a solid and more interesting adventure, I award this round to <spoiler: highlight to view>
Stormborn
</spoiler>. He becomes our second finalist.
 

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Stormborn

Explorer
carpedavid said:
Round 2, Match 2: Nonamazing vs. Stormborn
Therefore, for stronger ingredient use and a solid and more interesting adventure, I award this round to <spoiler: highlight to view>
Stormborn
</spoiler>. He becomes our second finalist.

In Spoiler mode to not give anything away:

Wow. Thanks. I was wondering if I could pull off the kobold hunt for a party of that level. And in hindsight I should have made them red half-dragons to keep with the pyrohydra flavor, I just have a weakness for the look and feel of the black dragon, plus I wanted to have things "marshy" in keeping with a hydra's usual lair. Totally nailed me on the music box, thats exactly what happened.

Nonamazing, massive and impressive effort. Winning doesn't really mean much unless you have a worthy foe, thanks for the challange.
 

carpedavid

First Post
I'm giving the third match entries a final read through right now, and barring Something Bad happening, I should have a judgment by mid-afternoon.
 

carpedavid

First Post
Round 2, Match 3: Warden vs. Wulf Ratbane

Go read Warden and Wulf Ratbane's entries, and then we'll get started with a comparison of the ingredients.

The first ingredient on the list is the Guardian Naga. Warden's Aaethil appears to the PCs while polymorphed into a beautiful elven woman, which she might as well be, since there's no reason for her to be a naga. It's true that Guardian Naga are usually lawful good, so it would make sense that such a creature would come to the aid of someone in trouble – but that's it.

He comes up with a clever explanation about how the devil beats up the necromancer because the naga has the ability to detect thoughts, but that all takes place outside the experience of the PCs, and it's something that they're unlikely to ever learn. It's an extraordinarily weak use of the ingredient.

Wulf's Guardian Naga, on the other hand, literally guards something, so he's a step up on Warden. He also ties the creature's reptilian heritage to the dead dragon, at least as part of a red-herring to distract the PCs. What I want to know is how the naga got there. He mentions that the heroes who defeated the dragon "...were unable to completely destroy him, so they left the guardian here while they searched for a way to finish the job." Was the naga one of the original heroes? Guardian Naga isn't on any of the Summon Monster/Nature's Ally lists. Did they carry a freeze-dried version with them for just such an occasion?

Additionally, it's been over a thousand years since the dragon was killed. I wonder what the poor beast eats? Perhaps she survives on a diet of unfortunate adventurers. This leads me to another question, though – the skull supposedly prophesizes, but the questioner has to provide it with a sacrifice of blood. Does the Lawful Good naga just sit by while powerful evil people dump blood all over the place?

For that matter, how does anybody get to ask the skull anything, since Wulf makes it pretty clear that she greats anyone who enters the cave with a barrage of spells? Perhaps she's so hungry that anyone who brings her a hamburger gets by. Perhaps there are answers to these questions, but they're certainly not provided here. So, Wulf leads by a smidge at this point, simply for giving the naga something to guard.

Next on the list is the Portable Hole. Warden gives us another horrendous use of an ingredient by making the portable hole simply a place where a ring is. Huh? Just a ring? Why not just put the ring in a regular old bag, or simply set it out in the open? It's not like getting into a portable hole is much of a challenge. Getting an acrophobic woman to climb down the side of a tower during an ice storm is, but that's those aren't the ingredients in question. Oy.

Wulf, on the other hand, makes up for his Guardian Naga use with this one. While it may seem silly at first blush, having the clever evil woman disguise the portable hole as a skirt is just a downright clever bit of misdirection. Moreover, it ties into the Torn Dress and Improved Sunder ingredient later in the adventure. It's also interactive – at least, if the PCs figure out what's going on, they're certainly going to want to interact with it. I think, frankly, that Wulf has taken the concept of de-pantsing to a whole new level with this one. He pulls firmly into the lead with this ingredient use.

Improved Sunder is next, and I guess I didn't realize just how difficult it would be to integrate each of these feats into the entries of this round. Of course, that's all the more reason to use them again in the future. Here, Warden actually makes some progress by deliberately choosing to transform the lovesick Darren into a devil that has the Improved Sunder feat. Fair enough. I am disappointed, though, that Warden didn't then turn around and suggest that the PCs use their own sundering abilities to take out the amulet that's oh-so prominently displayed.

Wulf, on the other hand, does a surprisingly good job with integrating this ingredient. It makes a ton of sense that Breda would place a higher priority on preventing sharp, pointy things from getting too close to her skirt than about directly taking out the PCs. Therefore, her use of Improved Sunder works well (and is actually one of the first examples of why someone would try to sunder a weapon that makes sense to me). Wulf continues to gain on his competitor, here.

This brings us to the Torn Dress ingredient. I'm assuming that the dress was the inspiration for the wedding scenario in Warden's entry. It's brought to the church as proof that the bride-to-be has indeed been kidnapped, which gives the PCs the evidence they might need to go after the bad guys. My only objection is that it isn't particularly interactive. It's brought to the PCs, instead of being found by them somehow, and, once seen, really doesn't have an importance. On the other hand, if this is an especially traditional society, the sight of a torn wedding dress will probably elicit extreme reactions from both the townspeople and the PCs. Kudos to Warden for the good use of an ingredient.

Wulf's Torn Dress is one of potential – a goal of the adventure rather than an item they encounter in that state. The ingredient use sinks a little in that regard, but it is buoyed by its ties to the Portable Hole and Improved Sunder ingredients. Warden gains back a bit of the ground he lost initially.

He loses that ground, though with his use of Ice Storm. While it makes sense thematically, the gelugon is an ice demon, after all, it fails mechanically. According to the description of the spell, the area of effect is a 20-ft radius, 40-ft high cylinder, but he describes a tower 500-ft high, completely surrounded by this ice storm. While the gelugon can cast this spell at will, it only has a duration of one round. Would it be cool if a gelugon could surround a 500-ft high tower with a storm of ice and snow? Hell yeah! Can he actually do it? Hell no! This is such a fundamental mechanical problem, that I have to penalize him for this ingredient. And no, I don't buy the argument of "Well, I'm not going to let some silly rules stand in the way of a cool scene." I'm not attributing that quote to Warden, but I know there are people out there in spectator land who are probably thinking it. This is a shared world, between the players and the DM. If the DM starts randomly breaking the shared laws of said world, then the trust between them is put at risk.

Wulf, by contrast, includes the Ice Storm as an obstacle that the PCs will run into. It's not a magical ice storm, just a mundane one, but it serves to create a believable environment while the PCs are ascending the mountain. He even includes a nice, tidy mechanical effect to drive the effect home. It's not the most creative use of an ingredient I've seen, but it's damn solid, and that's what I'm looking for.

The last ingredient is Acrophobia, and, correspondingly, both contestants have included something tall in their entries. Warden gives us a tall tower, and Wulf gives us a mountain. Wulf uses Acrophobia in two places: as a bit of misdirection on the part of Breda, and as the result of the naga's phantasmal killer spell. Both uses are awfully weak. First, Breda claims that she can't make it to the summit of the mountain, because she's afraid of heights. However, she offers to come along, just stopping short of the summit. I'm sorry, but I know people with acrophobia that can't get on roller coasters. I know it's supposed to be a lie, but it's not a terribly convincing one, no matter how high her bluff score. Of course, that might be the point, so I'll give Wulf a pass there.

Second, the phantasmal killer spell doesn't just generate an abstract fear – it generates a concrete illusion (how's that for an oxymoron) of a monster that's trying to do horrible things to the victim. I can forgive this to some extent, since this isn't a mechanical problem, just a flavor one, but it's still weak.

Warden's use is equally weak. I know that the woman hanging on for dear life at the top of a tower is acrophobic, but the PCs aren't really affected by it. With a 12th level group of adventurers coming after her, the choice to marry Darren or climb down the side of the tower is a false one. If I'm leading a party at 12th – 15th level, I'm flying up, grabbing the girl, and snagging the portable hole on the way down while the rest of my party keeps the devil busy. Screw climbing up through the tower.

At this point, Wulf is really, really far ahead. But the judgment isn't over! There's still the analysis of playability to do. Can Warden stage a comeback? Does Wulf toss it all out the window? Let's find out.

Both entries suffer from having only one hook. In Warden's case, NPC after NPC will implore the PCs for help until they accept. While I have no doubt that even a remotely-good aligned party would bite, it still comes across as heavy handed. Wulf on the other hand, has an evil priestess attempt to bluff the PCs into accepting her mission, which could definitely be problematic. If she doesn't convince them, or they realize what she's really up to, then the adventure could go awry. However, if they figure out what she's really up to, they might decide to head her off at the pass anyway, so it's sort of a wash. Neither contestant gains any ground here.

From a design perspective, Wulf's entry only suffers from that particular issue. If the PCs figure out what Breda is up to, then things might go to hell earlier than planned. Wulf does drop some clues about how the adventure would play if this scenario does come to pass, but doesn't address it in depth.

Warden's entry, on the other hand, has a major problem: the adventure is more interesting for the DM than the PCs. I appreciate the look into the antagonist's mind – and it does serve the stated purpose of allowing the DM to react to the PCs, but the events in the background are far more interesting than what the PCs have to interact with. This was a problem with Warden's first-round entry, as well, and I hope that it's not indicative of his normal DMing.

By this point, there's not much of a reason to continue. If it isn't obvious by now, <spoiler: highlight to view>
Wulf Ratbane
</spoiler> graduates to the finals. It wasn't his strongest entry, but it was better than his opponent's, and that's all that counts.
 

carpedavid

First Post
Final Round Notes

Here's a brief explanation of how the round-robin finals work. Each contestant will face off against the other two contestants. This will result in a total of three matches, and the contestant who wins two will win. If, as is possible, no contestant wins two matches, then the tie will be broken by a special tie breaking ingredient that each contestant must use in one of his two matches.

The first two finalists will face off in the first match. The loser of the first match will then take on the third finallist, and then the winner of the first match will take on the third finalist.

The outcome of second match will determine whether the third match, between the winner of the first match and the third finalist, is a winner-takes all, or a set-up for a potential tie.

Finalists, please post your availability!
 

Stormborn

Explorer
Finals Availability

All times Central:
Tuesday: Not at all (the quarter is ending where I teach, so myschedule is bust the first part of this week but open after that)
Wednesday: Only a little, between 2-5, not the best day for me.
Thursday/Friday: pretty much any day time hours, 8 AM to 5 PM
Saturday/Sunday: not really at all
Monday and beyond: with a few days forewarning 8AM to 5 PM
 


Tinner

First Post
Finals Availability

My schedule is essentially the same as before, however, my home PC is having serious problems with the internet connection, meaning that I can only see the posted ingredients, and post entries M-F 9am - 5pm at work.
I hope to have my computer issues fixed before the end of the week, but I don't want to count on it and mess up the finals.
I can still type at home, so as long as I get the ingredients before 5pm on a weekday, and can post them the following weekday, I'm cool. :D
 

carpedavid

First Post
Ok, then let's do the following,

Final Match 1: Tinner vs. Stormborn (Thursday @ 9:30 AM EDT (8:30 AM CDT))

Final Match 2: Wulf Ratbane vs. loser of round 1 (Monday? @ time TBD)

Final Match 3: Wulf Ratbane vs. winner of round 1 (TDB)

How's that look for everyone? Wulf, are you still on a 12 hour offset, or are you back in the Eastern time zone? In other words, at what times next week are you available to get ingredients?
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
carpedavid said:
Wulf, are you still on a 12 hour offset, or are you back in the Eastern time zone? In other words, at what times next week are you available to get ingredients?

I'm back on EST at the moment but that could change at any time. ;)

Not really a big issue as if I head overseas again I'm pretty much able to be awake at any time (jetlag and all).

A 7:00 or 8:00 PM posting time is pretty good for me. Gives me a couple hours after work if necessary to get my entry together for posting.
 

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