D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[GMforPowergamers]

That doesn't answer the question. You have punted to the black box. How do you, the DM, consistently avoid the Scylla of "we literally cannot afford to read AT ALL, so short-rest classes are screwed," without falling into the Charybdis of "we're fine, we can take a night to recover so we're at full strength to finish this, so short-rest classes are screwed"?

this is the issue... and it (for me and my friends) goes back to 2e and continued until 4e (that had other issues) thenen came screaming back for 5e...

Barbarian and rogue get nothing on a short rest. so they only need to rest if A) the whole party is so just do so, or B) they need to spend HD
Warlocks Fighters and bards after level 5 get a bunch of things back on short rests... so to maximize your teams benfits take short rests early and often
Wizards Sorcerers (clerics?) and Druids have most of there abilities (and the most powerful ones in the game at that) set to a long rest.

so if you have some mix of them the amount they need to rest to gain benfits of there class is at odds.

 

[Parmandur]

That's...exactly the problem I'm talking about.

You can do this maybe two or three times in a row and have it make sense and be reasonable. After that, it becomes really blatantly artificial--and, more importantly, still punishing to short-rest classes, because if you only have twelve hours to get the job done, spending a quarter of that resting for comparatively paltry benefits (4d8 total bonus damage? Wow, that's ONE spell, three times a day!) is a massive risk for minimal gain.

So, again, you still haven't explained how this avoids punishing the SR classes, nor how you navigate the issue of players (quite reasonably) asking, "Why is it we're always doing things that have to be completed in less than 12 hours or horrible, horrible things happen? It's just really weird that it's ALWAYS less than a day away from disaster..."

It's the genre. I've really never seen any pushback on it, and consequences are easy enough.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The example is more like trying to sue the manufacturer for driving the Pinto off of a cliff.

bull.

that is just insulting.

You would rather blame "You must be doing it wrong" or in the analogy "Well if you didn't go out that day you wouldn't have had a minor fender bender and the car wouldn't have blown up" then admit that we have found flaws in the system.

The game works in my experience.

there it is "I wasn't personally effected by this problem"

The designers have explained their math, which was extensively playtested before release and in use for 8 years now. I'll belive my experience and math.

and I wont. I will believe MY and many others experience and math over you shoving your fingers in your ears and yelling "I don't see a problem"

 

[Scribe]

WotC has internal tools that theybuse for private playtesting that let them verify that all published options are mathematically within bounds. Years of experience suggest they work.

Do they? Would be interesting to see that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You showed up thread that they do, though, with your calculations.

no I didn't I showed that if a wizard ONLY wanted to do damage they could one day wake up and do 80% what the fighter does... but the wizard ALSO has dozens of things he could choose a fighter can not... and worst of all I didn't use every resource for the wizard and I gave the fighter every advantage (constat round up) to be 20% better at the 1 thing they are better at. Run those numbers with a melee full caster so they are only down 1 attack and that goes away when you can use the BIG BOOMs and keep the small booms for other things and fall back on 2 attacks

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Do they? Would be interesting to see that.

I am yet to see a source other then "I am sure they do" for them though

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That's...exactly the problem I'm talking about.

You can do this maybe two or three times in a row and have it make sense and be reasonable. After that, it becomes really blatantly artificial--and, more importantly, still punishing to short-rest classes,

again if it isn't a problem for every last player and every last group we will still have people claiming we are lying or "driving off cliffs"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's the genre. I've really never seen any pushback on it, and consequences are easy enough.

notice the "I've really never seen" isn't the same as "there isn't any"

 

[Scribe]

I am yet to see a source other then "I am sure they do" for them though

I mean in a game that is at least paying lip service to being a tool kit, that would be quite a tool to provide people.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I mean in a game that is at least paying lip service to being a tool kit, that would be quite a tool to provide people.

it would be amazing... but since teh mosnter building guide in the DMG doesn't work and the MM CRs are all over the place do we trust them to have that math right?