Is a creature still a creature when it's dead?

[mysticknight232]

More specifically, the Assassion Shadow Step power refers to being next to a creature (see power below). I was hoping to kill a creature, then use it to teleport to another creature. But i'm not sure if a creature is still a creature when it's at 0 HP or less. Does anybody know if this is in the core rules somewhere?



Shadow Step

Assassin Feature

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You vanish into the shadow energy around one creature and
then step out of it near another creature.
At-Will ​

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✦ Shadow, Teleportation

Move Action Personal
Requirement: ​

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You must be adjacent to a creature.

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Effect: ​

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You teleport 3 squares to a square adjacent to a different

creature.
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Level 11: ​

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Teleport 4 squares.
Level 21: Teleport 5 squares.


Thanks and happy hunting.

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[Flipguarder]

my first reaction is no, because I hate over-literal readings of powers for the purpose of using them in (imo) unintended ways.

But I would wager the rest of the community disagrees with me.

 

[Khime]

Well, if it's not a creature anymore, it's an object. But if a dead creature is an object, what happens when you use a Make Whole ritual on it?

 

[Amaroq]

I'd say its not a creature if its dead .. but it doesn't have to be dead.

When you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or lower, you can decide if the damage was lethal or non-lethal. So, if you want, you can be the "knocks 'em unconscious and coup-de-graces later" character .. in which case, your teleportation should work as you want it to .. and your DM should start adding healers and healing potions to bring unconscious bad guys back into the fight.

 

[mysticknight232]

my first reaction is no, because I hate over-literal readings of powers for the purpose of using them in (imo) unintended ways.

But I would wager the rest of the community disagrees with me.

I totally understand...but sadly i'm the person that looks at something and needs to fully understand it. i don't like confusion and this is just a minor confusion i'm hoping to have cleared up. My DM ruled a dead creature to no longer be a creature, so i couldn't use this spell. i've no problem with that (although if we keep refereing to the dead "creature", aren't we saying it's still a creature? devil's advocate, sorry ). i just wanted to know if anybody knew for sure how to rule on that, or if anybody has had this come up in their campaigns yet.

Thanks and happy hunting!

 

[Dredly]

I would allow you to knock the mob unconscious however I would probably be a jerk about it as well if I knew you were doing it to sort of "abuse" a power.

ie: The goblins friends watch their leader fall in a heap but quickly realize that he is still alive and rally to save him +2 to all attack rolls

or The bandits realize that you are attempting to take them prisoner and they fight with renewed vigor, +1 to all defense rules and +1 to all damage rules

etc

If you are able to pass through a square where a mob has died, it is no longer an enemy, same with shooting through it. etc. If its a creature then it is still an obstacle. if its not an obstacle its not a creature

 

[mysticknight232]

If you are able to pass through a square where a mob has died, it is no longer an enemy, same with shooting through it. etc. If its a creature then it is still an obstacle. if its not an obstacle its not a creature

this is a great way to look at it and helps make it clear to me how the power should be used. i like it, 5 stars!

Thanks and happy hunting!

 

[Snotboy]

Seems to me that pretty much falls under the 'bag of rats' rule. The subject would need to be a a real risk as an enemy, a help as a friend, or otherwise a factor in the combat--I wouldn't let someone say, "I teleport next to a cockroach on that wall".

 

[Turtlejay]

I'd say it depends. If you leave all the dead minis on the board, for the rest of the combat, I'd not allow teleporting next to them. If it is an enemy you just killed, I have no problem with it.

I don't claim my view is RAW, but 0 HP=immediately dead doesn't sit will with me. I picture an enemy who's throat you just slashed collapsing on the ground and bleeding out, grunting and writhing for a round or two. Teleport away, but their connection to their Shadow is too weak for you to leap back.

Jay

 

[Dredly]

I'd say it depends. If you leave all the dead minis on the board, for the rest of the combat, I'd not allow teleporting next to them. If it is an enemy you just killed, I have no problem with it.

I don't claim my view is RAW, but 0 HP=immediately dead doesn't sit will with me. I picture an enemy who's throat you just slashed collapsing on the ground and bleeding out, grunting and writhing for a round or two. Teleport away, but their connection to their Shadow is too weak for you to leap back.

Jay

I guess this would really depend on how you kill the mob then? It would add a lot of the game which would be cool but for a DM it would really be a pain in the butt. I would be much more willing to allow a "knock unconscious" option, if doing it with a bladed weapon I'd have it do 1/2 damage and the benefit is the mob will be still alive (and thus able to be spoken too, imprisoned... etc)