D&D 5E Is Dying really hard?

Nebulous

Legend
Is it meta to think that in a world with healing a foe might understand that there is "dead" and there is "mostly dead" and "mostly dead" means "slightly alive" and "slight alive" means they are only one ranged heal spell from ganking said foe while they try to focus on the remaining standing foes.

Yeah, because it is also meta when the monsters reach zero hit points and are DEAD dead, and the PCs know 100% they aren't getting up again because they aren't making death saves. No PC ever stabs a downed monster an extra time just to make sure.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
I would argue, though, that base 5e is designed for more heroic fantasy- you're almost always going to live to see another day, absent major screw ups. This is the "whack-a-mole" problem.
The whack-a-mole problem, much like the 5MWD problem, is regarded as such in part because it's at odds with an 'heroic fantasy' feel. The 'heroes' who go out, get in a couple of scrapes, and bed down for the mid-morning to get their spells back isn't to heroic.
While I suppose it might be a little heroic to keep getting up, taking a swing, and getting knocked back down again, it's also more than a little silly. And that's literally what can happen once the support caster in your party has done the math.

A monster drops an ally, the healer uses his lowest-level slot to healing word the ally, the ally totters to his feat, takes his turn, then a monster knocks him down again. Rinse. Repeat. It happens because that's the support caster being played for maximum efficiency. Because of heal-from-0 the caster is forcing the monster to 'waste' all the damage it inflicts on the ally over the little bit he was healed for. Because being down to a few hps doesn't make you any less effective, the ally loses only the movement cost of standing up. The caster is minimizing his resource usage, leaving the ally to spend HD to heal up on the next short rest. It's all prettymuch optimal, and it's pretty un-heroic looking.

Of course, to really 'work' said caster has to go between the monster and you. If it the monster drops you, then you go, then the healer, it's not as clear-cut, healing you could be pointless because you'll just get dropped again before you act. Too bad/so sad, make a death save. ;P

Is it meta to think that in a world with healing a foe might understand that there is "dead" and there is "mostly dead" and "mostly dead" means "slightly alive" and "slight alive" means they are only one ranged heal spell from ganking said foe while they try to focus on the remaining standing foes.
It depends on the setting. In a lower-magic setting and/or one where PC types are very rare, it might be that a bandit or ogre or whatnot may have lived it's whole life and preyed on many victims without once encountering one that would get back up again after being dropped.

That was kinda the default assumption of the PoL non-setting - PCs (and PCs might be the only creatures in the world using PC rules) had bunches of surges and could Second Wind and PC 'leaders' had all sorts of surge-triggers. The general spellcasting that permeated the world was rituals that couldn't even be used in combat. Most NPCs, like monsters, had a surge, and rarely any way of using it in combat. The DM was advised to have most monsters ignore dropped characters as defeated.
Even then, a recurring villain would quickly get wise to the heroes' resilience and might take to putting them down with prejudice when they dropped. ;) And, there were always hungry ghouls...
 


Kalshane

First Post
The party I'm running a game for now includes a Life cleric, so him healing in combat tends to be a decent tactic (the paladin and the ranger, on the other hand, are often disappointed when they spend a precious spell slot and action on a cure wounds to only restore a whopping 4 hps to their gravely wounded ally. I'm also running a series of one shots for a second group that includes a tempest cleric and moon druid. Again, their attempts at healing tend to be unimpressive.) My main party tends to scramble whenever someone goes down, even though they haven't permanently lost anyone yet. (That may change at the end of the current adventure, as they'll be facing a wizard with Disintegrate.)

The whack-a-mole thing doesn't really bother me (though the fact my players panic as soon as anyone drops is probably a big part of that) and I explained to them upfront that enemies will respond to downed PCs according to their nature and that leaving an unconscious ally at the feat of a foe with no other targets in easy reach is asking for trouble, regardless of that enemy's nature.

If one feels like whack-a-mole is against the "heroic fantasy" feel, maybe change up what getting dropped to 0 means slightly. Rather than "unconscious and bleeding out" let them be staggered by their wounds and unable to stand/fight, but still able to croak out words of encouragement to their allies. Mechanically all the effects are the same, but the player isn't completely out of it/uninvolved and it's not quite as silly visually as continually falling unconscious and popping back up.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
"Heroic fantasy" in the abstract (as in, your character doesn't die, keeps on beating up the bad guys) can become silly in play (almost Pythonesque- "just a flesh wound, etc.").
That's part mis-interpretation - oh, you're dropped to 0, your arm's off - and part the persistent D&D weirdness of the glowy-healing-cleric standing behind the fighter in lieu of heroic resolve keeping him up & fighting.
 



devincutler

Explorer
Instead, think of the zombie horde. They have downed an adventurer, and now they will feast! Or other not-intelligent (and/or hungry) critters. They aren't concerned about tactics, or evil flair, they just want to get the adventurer in their belly.

I cannot speak to zombies, but most real life predators will not attempt to chow down on a meal while being threatened or attacked. Predators have to eat meals every day and taking wounds while eating is a good way to make it your last meal.

In short, a predator is going to either try to flee with its meal to a safe place it can eat (ala a leopard taking an antelope up a tree) or it will fight off its attackers so that it can eat in peace.

A DM that has a predator attack downed foes while others are active is simply trying to wantonly kill PCs.
 

devincutler

Explorer
The way to somewhat alleviate the whack-a-mole situation is to introduce some deleterious or potentially deleterious effect from dropping to 0 hp (aside from being unconscious). I have my PCs roll on a softened version of the critical damage chart from the DMG. It causes PCs to not be so blase about dropping to 0 hp.
 


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