D&D 5E Is Dying really hard?

[Harzel]

And that just makes it more complicated. Btw: you get no save against save inducing attacks while dying, ya kno, unconcious and all that.

See, its all just odd little fiddly bits.

I believe it is only STR and DEX saves that you auto-fail.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Yeah, because it is also meta when the monsters reach zero hit points and are DEAD dead, and the PCs know 100% they aren't getting up again because they aren't making death saves. No PC ever stabs a downed monster an extra time just to make sure.

You have never had an intelligent for collapse at 5 hit points and play dead so he could get in one last cheap shot before fleeing?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The way to somewhat alleviate the whack-a-mole situation is to introduce some deleterious or potentially deleterious effect from dropping to 0 hp (aside from being unconscious). I have my PCs roll on a softened version of the critical damage chart from the DMG. It causes PCs to not be so blase about dropping to 0 hp.

Or you can have death fails stay with a character until the player takes a short rest or has a healing spell cast on them specifically targeting the death fail(s).

That way getting someone back up with just a couple hit points is quite a risk. Fails can accumulate and insta-gibbing becomes possible.

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[JacktheRabbit]

For falling, you can use a combination of fatigue and/or death saves and/or automatic death saves to bring a bit more sting back to it if you need to.

Falling is still a bit unrealistic, but its still better than 3e where HP were often twice as high and gravity was the same damage. I still agree though that it could use some work.

To me the solution is simple. Falling just like drowning should both do ability score damage. Want players to properly fear falling then rule that players take 1D4 CONSTITUTION damage and zero Con means dead, no death saving throws.

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[Uller]

A really intelligent foe that is cruel and vindictive, or prideful, would make sure that the unconscious foe was dead! Intelligent foes know that spells and potions can revive unconscious victims. They also know that sometimes (when a 20 is rolled for a death save) the victim can get up all on its own.

I think the sword swings both ways on this issue.

In the game I ran last night I have a will o wisp following the party. Everytime they get in trouble it pops out and starts trying to murder downed PCs. It really doesnt help that the barbarian has a cursed berserking axe and tends to start wailing on other PCs...they are really starting to hate the will o wisp.

Yes...whackamole happens. Especially at lower levels. Play some of the monsters like they are actually trying to kill PCs and it adds to the tension. Some monsters just want to survive.

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[Rhenny]

In the game I ran last night I have a will o wisp following the party. Everytime they get in trouble it pops out and starts trying to murder downed PCs. It really doesnt help that the barbarian has a cursed berserking axe and tends to start wailing on other PCs...they are really starting to hate the will o wisp.

Yes...whackamole happens. Especially at lower levels. Play some of the monsters like they are actually trying to kill PCs and it adds to the tension. Some monsters just want to survive.

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As soon as the DM has creatures attack unconscious PCs the entire mood of the game changes so if a DM (and players) want a more serious and fatal feel that's definitely one way to make it happen.

In those kinds of games, after PCs are level 3 or higher you won't see wack-a-mole so often. As you said it is basically unavoidable at low levels when 1 hit can put a PC down.

 

[Uller]

As soon as the DM has creatures attack unconscious PCs the entire mood of the game changes so if a DM (and players) want a more serious and fatal feel that's definitely one way to make it happen.
.

Yep. I don't do it often. But it definitely adds to the tension. Some monsters want to kill PCs.

The will o wisp has two goals: survive and consume dying characters' life. They chased it off before it could finish a PC on two occasions. But because of that it is now personal. They really want to find it and kill it.

In another game a PC dropped to zero hp in a fight with 5 vampire spawn. She was isolated from the rest of the party (they were 50 feet above her on a bridge fighting 3 of the vamps while she was fighting two by herself). One dropped her. The other one could have moved to try to get to the other PCs...but why would it do that? It wanted to feed...so it did and killed her. The Paladin had revivify prepared but was getting low on hp as well...again. it added to the tension to keep him up so they could revive the dead PC. It's not something I go to often...but every few sessions the players ought to be reminded that the monsters are trying to kill them. In the entire run of 5e I may have permanently killed 3 PCs. All were 3rd level or less. But last night it came down to a death save and chasing the will o wisp off before it could feed. My players felt like they accomplished something by just surviving...and they did because I was fully prepared to off the PC.

 

[Uller]

Another minor point: I get that a lot of players get attached to PCs and some even feel like if they die they 'lost' and that can be discouraging. High PC mortality can be a put off for many styles of play....so this is by no means a badwrongfun thing. If a group prefers few or no PC deaths and that's what the dm delivers, all to the good.

But the OP painted a picture of a player being bored and losing interest in the game once their pc hit 0 hp. To me, that's a problem. We had two PCs drop last night and both got to two failed death saves. Live or die came down to a die roll and other pcs saving them...I don't think anyone was bored...

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[Tony Vargas]

But the OP painted a picture of a player being bored and losing interest in the game once their pc hit 0 hp. To me, that's a problem.

Not necessarily a problem of the game being too deadly or the DM screwing up (or that player screwing up). It could have just been a problem with the rest of the combat taking too long to resolve, the party's support caster not coming through with the band-aids, or even with the session before the combat failing to engage that player, so when his character drops he's already at the end of his patience, etc....

 

[Uller]

That's kinda what I meant....that there is another problem than whackamole...

If whackamole is happening more than once every few sessions and players start to feel like they are guaranteed to get revivied, something is off. Try more frequent, less deadly encounters. Nonlethal combats. Include other opportunities to burn resources. If every fight has one or two PCs going down and getting back up to keep on fighting then that can be boring.

Also sometimes it's the player that is the problem...on their phone juat because the spotlight is off them for a bit? Problem.

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