D&D 5E Is infinite diversity in infinite combinations .... a terrible thing in D&D?

Should all classes be open to all races in all things always?

  • Yes! Infinite diversity in infinite combinations is a good thing!

    Votes: 38 41.8%
  • No! I play my tennis with a net.

    Votes: 23 25.3%
  • Neither yes nor no; I will explain below why your poll options cannot constrain me.

    Votes: 16 17.6%
  • Get off my lawn.

    Votes: 10 11.0%
  • I'm not sure, but Paladins are terrible.

    Votes: 4 4.4%

  • Poll closed .

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Would you allow me to play my 10th level Gnome Cleric of Garl Glittergold if I come up with an amusing explanation of how he arrived in a world where there are no other gnomes and no other clerics and no-one worships any gods, let alone Garl Glittergold, but where my spells still work because Mystic?

So we're specifically running a different setting, going through the trouble or writing up a cheatsheet to get everyone on the same page, and you want to break immersion for everyone else at the table and shoehorn your character in.

You know, you're right. I'm autocratic. Because at this part of the conversation I've decided that you want your gaming fun and are willing to have it at the cost of the other players, and that's not someone I want at the table. Even the next campaign I run, which has an elaborate session zero where the GM and players all work out the setting together, you won't be invited to.

I'm sorry, I don't want this to seem like an attack, but that's pretty much the opposite of what I'm looking for when I get an opening at my table and invite someone to join.
 

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Guest 6801328

Guest
I am so sick of you ultra-conservative grognards trying to tell everyone else how to play the game.

You grew up on LOTR, and can't possibly imagine flights of fancy and imagination having any other form. Yeah. We get it.There is only one way to play the game! The one from one infinitesimally small slice of the imagination!

So. Boring. Yawn.

Even in it's day, Tolkien was writing pastoral escapist 'return to the glorified past (that never existed).' Super conservative. Leveraging folk tales from hundreds of years before. Sorry. Fantasy these days is much wilder, more interesting, with a much wider field of influence, and way better for it.

Keep whining about it on obscure message boards on the internet, though. I'm sure that will show them the error of their ways, and they'll stop being so, so... diverse.

Ignoring the obnoxious, entitled, whiny tone for a moment....

Why does a restriction of options have to mean Tolkien? Or "middle-ages pseudo-Europe" for that matter? I can easily imagine (and have played in) game worlds where it would be jarring for a Tolkien-esque character to show up.

There's an analogue to cooking here: you don't put every ingredient into the pot; you pick a few complementary ones. But you also need to try different recipes that use different ingredients to avoid getting bored.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
But, to avoid that, you want to deprive everyone who picks up the game of some option? That's not being painted as the bad guy on a small scale, that's actually being the bad guy, on a grand scale.

Nope. There's tons of 3rd-party but unofficial options to D&D. All of those people picking up the game are welcome to adopt whatever options they like.

Or are you suggesting that when you "pick up the game" the book should as large as necessary to contain every possible option that anybody might ever want?
 

BoldItalic

First Post
So we're specifically running a different setting, going through the trouble or writing up a cheatsheet to get everyone on the same page, and you want to break immersion for everyone else at the table and shoehorn your character in.

You know, you're right. I'm autocratic. Because at this part of the conversation I've decided that you want your gaming fun and are willing to have it at the cost of the other players, and that's not someone I want at the table. Even the next campaign I run, which has an elaborate session zero where the GM and players all work out the setting together, you won't be invited to.

I'm sorry, I don't want this to seem like an attack, but that's pretty much the opposite of what I'm looking for when I get an opening at my table and invite someone to join.

That's okay. I don't take it as an attack when someone has different views to me :D

We have different ways of having fun and we find fun in playing D&D in different ways. That's okay, it shows how great the game is, that it can accommodate both of us (and millions of other people too). You are just as right as I am. Just, differently right.
 


schnee

First Post
Ignoring the obnoxious, entitled, whiny tone for a moment....

Obnoxious? Intentional.

Entitled? 'Oh you, telling grognards that their constant need to say everyone else's fun is bad and wrong and dumb is annoying... how entitled.' If it's something else, please, explain. I'm all ears. :heh:

Whiny? Nah.

Why does a restriction of options have to mean Tolkien? Or "middle-ages pseudo-Europe" for that matter? I can easily imagine (and have played in) game worlds where it would be jarring for a Tolkien-esque character to show up.

Because the grogs that complain the loudest almost always want the game to return to the racial stereotypes and roles defined by Tolkein and codified into the rules of AD&D.

There's an analogue to cooking here: you don't put every ingredient into the pot; you pick a few complementary ones. But you also need to try different recipes that use different ingredients to avoid getting bored.

Then we absolutely agree in principle.

Nobody's forcing a table to put every ingredient in; they're making the game a malleable, open sandbox where they can define for themselves what kind of world to live in, party to have, and game to play.

To use your own cooking analogy, the game now has a fully-stocked larder, that doesn't bias a certain cuisine like before. And, the books are FULL of optional rules that allow you to make it anything from an old-school harsh logistical challenge (with hard-mode encumbrance, slower healing, fewer long rests), to tactical combat (detailed grid combat, 'speed factor' alternate initiative, flanking) to a swashbuckling cinematic story (with fail-forward mechanics, theater of the mind combat, hand-waving long travel).

Now the races have the same flexibility, players are now taking advantage of that...and some people hate it. Hence this thread.

I'm not telling the grogs how to play their game; I'm giving the ones whiny enough to start threads like this - complaining about how others play - well-deserved feedback.
 

This thread remind me of my first years on DnD back in the 80s.

The Dm trending attitude was control freak,
the RAW was applied with some religious faith,
Damned, we were so serious and stuck up!
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
To use your own cooking analogy, the game now has a fully-stocked larder, that doesn't bias a certain cuisine like before. And, the books are FULL of optional rules that allow you to make it anything from an old-school harsh logistical challenge (with hard-mode encumbrance, slower healing, fewer long rests), to tactical combat (detailed grid combat, 'speed factor' alternate initiative, flanking) to a swashbuckling cinematic story (with fail-forward mechanics, theater of the mind combat, hand-waving long travel).

Ah, see, now you're making the mistake of assuming that everybody plays "home" games. I happen to play a lot of Adventurer's League, and anything that is valid in AL is valid at any AL table. DM's do not have the option of saying, "Sorry, no Drow at my table." So if the rules are a "full" larder than any AL game can consist of any random combination of those ingredients.

That's why I believe the core, official rules should try to maintain a consistent and even minimalist theme. Unearthed Arcana, DM's Guild, and general fan content can give the "home chefs" everything they need.

And there's always other games, too. Surely (hopefully?) you don't think that D&D should be so polymorphic that it can faithfully replicate Lovecraftian, Gothic Horror, Star Wars, and cyberpunk genres? If not, then you acknowledge that games shouldn't try to be everything. And once we're in agreement on that, the breadth that any one game should cover is a matter of opinion. And between the two positions of "it lessens my experience to have all these extra elements present" and "it lessens my experience to be prevented from using those extra elements" there is no moral upper ground. Each side is putting their own preferences ahead of others.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
This thread remind me of my first years on DnD back in the 80s.

The Dm trending attitude was control freak,
the RAW was applied with some religious faith,
Damned, we were so serious and stuck up!

I bet with a little effort you could pull some syllables out and make this a killer haiku.
 

JeffB

Legend
This thread remind me of my first years on DnD back in the 80s.

The Dm trending attitude was control freak,
the RAW was applied with some religious faith,
Damned, we were so serious and stuck up!

We started in the 70s and played into 1980s.
Never played like this. Sure a DMs game was his. But widely varying games was the thing that made the game great.

Edit- (general comment to the topic) These days, the "shared experience" is what WOTC wants for players.

No thanks. I like my variety, not store-brand vanilla.
 
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