Is it a good idea to pull a lever in a dungeon?

[Raven Crowking]

One of the stupidest traps that I have ever used in a game, and one that always seemed to kill at least one character, was a rope labeled 'If you pull this rope you will die'. And somebody always pulled the rope. In which case the ceiling falls down, crushing the idiot, and every one standing near him. It was a trap that had been discovered by a thief in another adventuring group, who labeled it so that his party wouldn't be stupid enough to pull the rope.... Even knowing ahead of time isn't enough for some people.

The Auld Grump

Clearly an unfair trap.

 

[Melan]

It's boring if you don't pull the lever.

It is definitely not boring, though, when you do and your character goes splat.

And I say this seriously. When did casual and semi-random death become unfun? I sure enjoy it - even when I am playing 3e!

 

[Hussar]

I think something to be aware of is unfair =/= unfun. A trap can be unfair and fun at the same time. However, that doesn't make it suddenly fair just because people liked it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I think something to be aware of is unfair =/= unfun. A trap can be unfair and fun at the same time. However, that doesn't make it suddenly fair just because people liked it.

Agreed. Nor does fair = fun. A trap can be fair and unfun at the same time. However, that doesn't make it suddenly unfair just because people don't like it.

Conflating fair with fun is, IMHO, a bad idea.

RC

 

[pawsplay]

It's boring if you don't pull the lever.

It's also, boring, I suppose, if the party's wizard doesn't charge the ogre with his dagger after running out of spells. For some values of boring.

I think it's a lot less boring when characters do things for specific reasons. I find it far more interesting to discern what something does and make good choices. Just pulling any old lever you come across is not interesting at all; you are making only the most limited use of your ability to choose.

Adventurers find and circumvent the traps, slay the monsters, outsmart the NPCs, and get out alive and hopefully richer for the experience. They don't pull every lever they find, charge very foe head-on and hope for the best, trust anyone who seems friendly, and jump headlong into dangerous situations without considering the consequences. Adventures are exciting and improvisational; they don't need you adding excitement, unless you want them to be very short adventures.

I don't find stupidity interesting. I do find cunning interesting. I would not be excited to run a game for the Amazing Lever-Pulling Brothers.

 

[Lanefan]

One of the stupidest traps that I have ever used in a game, and one that always seemed to kill at least one character, was a rope labeled 'If you pull this rope you will die'. And somebody always pulled the rope. In which case the ceiling falls down, crushing the idiot, and every one standing near him.

I have *got* to work this in to an adventure sometime! Excellent stuff!

Lanefan

 

[Hussar]

Agreed. Nor does fair = fun. A trap can be fair and unfun at the same time. However, that doesn't make it suddenly unfair just because people don't like it.

Conflating fair with fun is, IMHO, a bad idea.

RC

I completely agree with this. It does work both ways. Many traps are fairly boring really. A 10 foot pit isn't exactly memorable or interesting or fun. But, that shaker trap in Life's a Bazaar in the Shackled City AP is something I'll remember for years. Perfectly fair trap and really cool. The fact that my dwarf had to glue himself to the wall with an tanglefoot bag to survive just adds to it IMO.

However, this:

It's also, boring, I suppose, if the party's wizard doesn't charge the ogre with his dagger after running out of spells. For some values of boring.

I think it's a lot less boring when characters do things for specific reasons. I find it far more interesting to discern what something does and make good choices. Just pulling any old lever you come across is not interesting at all; you are making only the most limited use of your ability to choose.

Is just so much straw. No one is saying that you do blindingly stupid things. However, if you come across a lever, and take some precautions (such as maybe using a rope or a 10 foot pole, checking for traps, etc) leaving the lever and ignoring it is just boring. Levers DO something. To me, part of adventuring in a dungeon is exploration. That includes fiddling with stuff to see what it does.

Obviously, YMMV.

 

[pawsplay]

Not pulling a lever isn't ignoring it. It means recognizing the multitude of unknowns that could occur if you pull it, and deciding not to pull it until you are reasonably sure it does something good.

 

[Hussar]

Not pulling a lever isn't ignoring it. It means recognizing the multitude of unknowns that could occur if you pull it, and deciding not to pull it until you are reasonably sure it does something good.

To me, there's no difference between a lever, a door, a chest or any other fixture in a dungeon. They are all elements that are meant to be explored. I would never not open a chest just because it might be bad. After all, it might be good as well. Generally, I don't walk past closed doors in dungeons without finding out what's behind them despite the almost certainty that whatever's behind the door will want to do me harm.

Why should levers be different?

 

[lukelightning]

I say "Pull the Lever" but only if the DM understands how searching for traps works. I.E. A rogue with a requisite search result should be able to figure out if it's a trap, or at least stuff like "this lever opens a door" etc.

Maybe my wizard will develop a new divination spell called "What's This Lever Do?"