D&D 5E Is Rime's Binding Ice OP?

[ECMO3]

The damage is fine, what concerns me is the immobilization for a minute, with no concentration and no save or action to break free in future turns. It does have an option for an ally to break you free but that is useless for solo bosses.

A 3rd level wizard casts it on an adult Dragon (even a white Dragon) and if it fails the party just stays out of breath weapon distance and pulverizes him with missiles and cantrips for a minute

Am I reading this wrong?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It appears you have misread. "On a failed save, a creature takes 3d8 cold damage and is hindered by ice formations for 1 minute, or until it or another creature within reach of it uses an action to break away the ice." Any target can break itself free with an action.

 

[Ancalagon]

It's a good spell, but because creatures can "auto-save" to free themselves by spending an action, it's not OP. Compare this to hypnotic pattern where the targets, if they fail their saves, cannot break away free without external help. Although now that I think about it, the lack of concentration makes this comparison not ideal...

 

[Krachek]

Do we have a name for that trend to miss read rules making features OP.
Ruleoplexia?

 

[ECMO3]

It's a good spell, but because creatures can "auto-save" to free themselves by spending an action, it's not OP. Compare this to hypnotic pattern where the targets, if they fail their saves, cannot break away free without external help. Although now that I think about it, the lack of concentration makes this comparison not ideal...

I feel like a bonehead for misreading it. I agree with this for the most part, it still is a strong for a 2nd level spell I think.

I have always thought HP is underpowered for a 3rd level spell compared to other control spells (especially Fear) mostly because it is canceled with damage. I think HP would make more sense as a 2nd level spell and compare pretty evenly with RBI if it was.

HP - no damage but better effect, concentration, need another to free, freed by damage, cant use on creatures with charm immunity
RBI - Good damage, weaker effect, no concentration, can free yourself, not freed by damage, works on creatures with charm immunity

 

[Ancalagon]

I feel like a bonehead for misreading it. I agree with this for the most part, it still is a strong for a 2nd level spell I think.

I have always thought HP is underpowered for a 3rd level spell compared to other control spells (especially Fear) mostly because it is canceled with damage. I think HP would make more sense as a 2nd level spell and compare pretty evenly with RBI if it was.

HP - no damage but better effect, concentration, need another to free, freed by damage, cant use on creatures with charm immunity
RBI - Good damage, weaker effect, no concentration, can free yourself, not freed by damage, works on creatures with charm immunity

We all make mistakes - welcome to being a human

because it's a 2nd level spell, I think the best one to compare it to is web.

Web is better, imo, but because it's a concentration spell it should be better. It has better range/area, lasts longer, and clever play can make it do a lot of damage to large creatures. It also requires an action to attempt a save vs just taking an action and making it automatically.

However, I think Rime is in a good spot - useful but not OP. And it's a great spell if you want to make a "cold/ice mage" too.

 

[Dausuul]

It's still a very strong spell. A 30-foot cone is a huge blast for 2nd level, the damage is respectable, and the debuff costs each target an action if it fails the save.

 

[jgsugden]

Putting aside the misread: I consider this a strong spell, but it has issues.

Area: 30 foot cone requires you to be up close, and isn't that big of an area compared to a fireball.

Saving Throw: Constitution save is one of the worst out there. On a successful save,, the enemy will take 1/2 of 3d8 - or about 6 cold damage.

Damage type: It deals cold, which is one of the most resisted.

Weak allies are awesome: If the creature has a weak ally, that weak ally can free them using an action.

Still - the capability to deny a reasonably sized group movement until an action is sacrificed is strong when it works out.

If I were to rewrite the spell, I'd up the damage to 3d10 because it will be well resisted. I'd also make the area difficult terrain for 1 minute. I like this spell for flying PCs as it is a good way to put other flyers on the ground, and many flyers are not as durable as grounded creatures.

 

[Blue]

I have always thought HP is underpowered for a 3rd level spell compared to other control spells (especially Fear) mostly because it is canceled with damage. I think HP would make more sense as a 2nd level spell and compare pretty evenly with RBI if it was.

Hypnotic Pattern is a top tier 3rd level spell. WIS is the most likely of the three big saves to be low or even negative even with high CR creatures. Action denial scales perfectly, and unlike Fear doesn't hit into creatures with immunities as it goes up level. The 20' cube makes it fairly easy to place to avoid getting allies while still getting lots of foes. And since the goal is action denial, foes spending actions to wake allies is fulfilling it - in fact while it's less total actions lost, it's more actions lost now while the rest of your party is eliminating foes. And if too many get out - drop it and cast again.

 

[ECMO3]

Action denial scales perfectly, and unlike Fear doesn't hit into creatures with immunities as it goes up level.

HP has as more problems with immunity than fear does. HP causes charmed and it only affects those that are charmed by the spell. A lot of creatures are immune to charmed and thereby immune to the entire spell. On top of that some more are not immune to charmed but have advantage on saves against charmed.

I think Fear is the top control spell of 3rd level or below. As you alluded to, it has problems with many enemies immune to frightened, and that is a weakness. But overall I still think it is a lot better than HP or most others for many reasons: First enemies still drop what they are carrying even if they are immune to frightened, so it still has a minor effect on them and it will take away AOOs, let you pick up their gear etc. Second they can not be shaken out of it by an ally or damage and they can reattempt the save only if out if sight of the caster. Finally it is much better in terms of action denial. If you fail to save against fear you lose all your actions until the spell ends or you are out of sight, even once out of sight you continue to lose actions until you save. Further since you take the dash action, that alone will often translate to 2 actions lost for every turn you are under its effect (1 action lost on that turn and then another action lost to make up for the dash you took and work your way back to the party).

The only things HP has going for relative to Fear IMO is the range and you can catch allies in it with fewer issues. If you catch an ally in fear they are running away with all the enemies and you have to run them down or tackle them or something like that to stop it.